mjd1001

I wonder if the plan for most of the rest of the season will be for Norris to get those top line Center minutes....just needs a few games to get up to speed with the system?

The dowside obviously: -Norris misses a lot of games, at least he has in the past. The upside: -In the past 4 years, 460 forwards have played over 100 games. He is 38th out of 460 players in terms of goals per games played. He is also much better than Cozens on the PowerPlay: -Cozens 12 career PP goals in 341 games (1 PP goal every 28.4 games) -Norris 33 career PP goals in 236 games (1PP goal every 7.1 games) Of players with over 500 minutes of ice time on the PP over the last 4 seasons (basically a PP regular), he is 17th best in the entire league in goals per 60 (out of 150 forwards with that many minutes or more.)

Unrelated to the trade, but I never saw any of those movies until about 3 years ago...now I watch any of them whenever I come across them on TV.

My head is spinning.

"Yeah, it's pretty tough," Ottawa captain Brady Tkachuk said. "It [stinks] losing a guy like [Norris]. Obviously, everybody knows how much he means to me. Just spent the last little bit with him and I'll kind of take advantage of every minute for the rest of the day ... Tough practice today." "It's the unfortunate reality of it being a business," Tkachuk said. "We're getting back important pieces that are really going to help us. I mean, it [stinks]. It's part of it, but with 'Cozy' and Gilbert, we're going to welcome them with open arms. I feel bad a little bit that this is the initial reaction and of course I think they're going to understand why it's a little bit of a whirlwind for me personally, but with that being said, it's all about being a good captain, being a good teammate and making sure that they have everything that they need and have the support right from Day 1. They're going to be important pieces to our team." https://www.nhl.com/news/dylan-cozens-traded-to-ottawa-senators-by-buffalo-sabres-for-josh-norris

Cozens is gone, a Center (who is scoring a LOT more than Pettersson is) is on the way back. I'm good with no EP at this point.

I like the move a lot. I'll like it even more if they make another deal that involved some more toughness coming back in return.

My thinking? Your thinking is the one that is flawed here. Why just give it away? Maybe because Ottawa wouldn't do the trade without it? Did you have a source in the room when Buffalo said "Thanks, take a 2nd also, on us"

That 2nd has about a 1 in 100 chance of being a good nhl level player in the next 3-4 years. I'm ok with it. Gilbert is not a great player but as you said he is one of the few guys on this team that will 'go' with anyone when needed. Hopefully since he is gone, a suitable replacement for that role is incoming.

I expected less so I'm surprised. He is net negative player. For the last 2 years the team 'loses' when he is on the ice. Every player he has played with for more than a handful of shifts per season is worse when they play with him. A legit argument can be made this team gets better simply getting rid of him. I'm sure other teams scouts, and their analytics depts all know this also. Not bad, just not sure Quinn fits anywhere well the way he is playing.

Because Norris is a better player than Cozens, a LOT better scoring and a little better without the puck.

I have this 'feeling' that Cozens will look good for the rest of the year. I think the trade will 'reinvigorate' him, and I think he needs that. Also, I think when he gets there they might just tell him "go out there and just play simple hockey, shoot the puck, hit people" and that is his game. Next year after a full year of camp, where he 'learns' the system more and they start asking him to do more (defensive coverage), that is when you might see things settle back down for him in a negative way. That might be oversimplifying it....but the above would be my best guess for how things unfold for him. Much better play for Ottawa this year than he has played for Buffalo...and then next year and beyond are up to him deciding whether he wants to put the work in to legit change his game.

Tage's elite shot and ability to get off shots with his reach that few in the NHL can do. Sure, its only about 15% of the Sabres goals, but Tage might 'creat' his own goals as good as anyone else in the league right now.

I think people in Ottawa, and the Canadian 'experts' are doing what most people do when they don't get to see a player play ever single game. They look at the stats, they look at the 'best year' as a ceiling that can be reached again, and they look at what the draft profile was of the player. What they don't see with Cozens, not because they don't know hockey but because they don't watch him every game....are all the little things he is so bad at. Cozens around the league is known as a 31 goal scorer, top 10 pick, 6'3" tall guy who throws checks into the corner, and a player 'stuck' on a bad team like the Sabres. Initial evaluations of this trade are going to be Ottawa got a guy who is back on his way to be a star. Its not because its necessarily true, its because that is how fans and media view things.

From the little I have read about JBD....he seems to be at best a 5/6. He could be one of those guys that, if he sticks around for 2-3 years...once he gets into his late 20's could be a 'sneaky' 2nd pair guy with a decent, but not exceptional, all around game.

Well, his deal is up but he is restricted and not looking to be a high priced guy. If he can play some games with the Sabres, it can basically be a couple month try-out to see if he meshes well with someone.

I don't know if I'd go THAT far to say we have a lot of guys that can create. On the other hand, you don't always need to 'create' from the center position. He could be someone what meshes well and finishes what Dahlin creates from the blue-line.

It could be. I'm not super high on Byram right now....and I'd rather have him not in this trade as his value would be pretty high to move him to somewhere else. But if it was Bryam, I'd still be ok with this deal.

Well those are this years numbers. If you extend the numbers over the past 3 years, they are a bit better. Over the last 3 years combined: With Tkachuk, one goal allowed every 21. 2 minutes. Without Tkachuk, one goal allowed every 19.4 minutes. So if you were to actually take away this year, he actually had about the same analytics (in terms of goals even strength on ice allowed) with or without Tkachuk. Again, just some quick numbers....on the ice is always a bit different than pure analytics. I agree with 100% of this.

A quick look at the analytics this year, he plays pretty well with Tkachuk. But when you remove him from Tkachuk's line...not so good. The team allows a lot of goals when he is on the ice without Tkachuk as his linemate. But the numbers are a bit better than Cozen's are with anyone on the Sabres. When he was on the ice with Tkachuk, they allowed only one goal every 32 minutes. When Norris was on the ice with anyone else but Tkachuk, allowed one goal every 18 minutes. So maybe Norris isn't going to be a great defender, we'll have to wait and see. Analytics aren't the game though, on ice will tell the story in the long run.

We all aren't going to agree on this....I respect anyone who disagrees with me as I'm wrong as much as I'm correct, but I think when this is official the Sabres immediately are a better team. Mostly because you got rid of Cozens. The fact that they got a guy who scores at a 30+ goal pace and shoots almost double the % cozens does...I'm invested a little more the rest of the season. Cozens tries hard, he gives this team effort. In a way, I'm happy if he gets a chance to start with a new team in a new situation.

Maybe the 'change of scenery' thing would be good for both players? Yeah...maybe that is a reach, I don't always believe that a change of scenery helps....you are usually who you are....just Cozens is so bad away from the puck the team needs a change.

He cost a bit more money than Cozens, and he has a bit of an injury history (not too bad but there have been games missed) but overall he is an upgrade from Cozens for sure both scoring and in his own end. His shooting percentage is almost double what you get out of Cozens.

He has 20 goals in just 53 games this year, I don't consider that 'nothing'.

I'm not 100% schooled on Josh Norris, but the guy can score. This would be a huge, big win for the Sabres. He has more goals across his career than Cozens and has done that in more than 100 less games. Also a clutch scorer, has 5 game winners this year in just over 50 games played, he had 8 game winners in a single season a few years ago. Cozens has 4 game winners for his entire career.