LTS

Deal. :)

Indeed. So he gets the playoffs in the Q and then heads to Rochester for some playoffs there? I can live with that. I'm not sure how those two leagues line up, I'll be honest. But let's say that happens. He gets some significant playing time after seeing the NHL level of play. I'm thinking that might be a good thing.

I understand the point. Look, I walk around now and say the Sabres suck. Every day I say it. They are terrible. It is the natural tendency of human beings to focus on the short-term/recent past more than the bigger picture. It often leads to decision making, attitudes, etc. that while perfectly viable in the "now" are not necessarily in the best interests of the long term goal. I want the Sabres to be like Detroit or Pittsburgh. I'd accept San Jose even I suppose. I'm not sure there's a debate about whether it could be worse. I think we know it could be worse. We could not have a team to complain about. We could be in Florida.. sure the sunshine might make us happier but a failing hockey team would still depress us and the constant talk about them leaving the market wouldn't help at all. We don't have that, at least. I want it to be better too, I'm just not in total despair I guess. As I said in other threads, I'm fairly confident a house cleaning is coming right through to DR. I believe the team, even with Rolston, still exhibits certain levels of style that are not working in the NHL. I think Pegula left it alone just long enough to see what he had.

Thought I would post a slightly different thread with some observations. Given that every thread basically disintegrates into a they suck/they don't suck that bad debate I thought I would try a thread where we could encompass it all. I pulled together the final conference standings since the 06-07 season. I averaged those finishing positions out and ranked the teams. I also then included today's standings as the finishing position for this season and did the same thing. Finally, I looked at where each team is currently sitting and compared it to their average finishing position for a difference. While there are not many surprises in doing this I think it provides a little bit if perspective on the Sabres. The Maple Leafs have not made the playoffs in that entire time. The Avalanche have Stastny, Duchesne, Landeskog, O'Reilly, and more and they are perpetual bottom dwellers. The Islanders are the model of ineptitude. The Oilers who have had near #1 picks for 4 years straight continue to stay at the bottom. How many of their fans are saying "Wait until next year when our prospects pan out?" San Jose, the second best team over that time has not even made a Stanley Cup final. There are really only a handful of teams that have succeeded over that time span. Some have had nice breaks like Pittsburgh getting Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal, Letang, and more. Sure they've made some good moves too but getting top picks at the right time matters (right Edmonton?) San Jose has made great moves and had nothing to show for it. Would you want to be Washington right now? They finished in the top 3 in the conference 4 times in this span and now the wheels have fallen off that team. Tampa Bay, a team with Stamkos, Lecavalier, St. Louis, and more have not succeeded. Would you rather have their roster? You might. When I look at the breakdown below there are a few teams that are clearly doing it right (Detroit, New Jersey, Vancouver, Boston). Buffalo has struggled lately and we are all getting tired of it but over the past 6 seasons DR is squarely responsible for the creation of this team and he has them in the upper half of average finishing position. It's good to be bothered by the current state of the team to be certain but I guess rather than get all worked up over how bad they are today just remember it could be a lot worse. Many of us are from Buffalo. We lived through the Bills losing 4 straight championship games. It was awful. I couldn't stand being a San Jose fan. All the promise in the world and nothing to show for it. I couldn't stand being an Islanders, Avalanche, Oilers, Leafs fan... that has to be a horrible feeling. Knowing you have talent and aren't succeeding, etc. You can look around and get jealous of another team's roster but then you look at where they are and you wonder.. well.. maybe not. Philadelphia, for all its success has averaged right along with the Sabres. They are floundering this season, just like Buffalo but I think we'd all say they are a better team. Unfortunately the numbers say otherwise. If Buffalo, had made the Finals in 2006-2007 they would have been right on par with the Flyers. Does it mean much? I don't know. I think we all take away from this team what we want. Of course I want this team to be better but I just can't get myself to the point where I think all is lost and that no one on the team knows what they are doing. The breakdown is below. From 06-07 through 11-12 season (team - average finishing position / bolded are teams in Stanley Cup Final): Detroit - 2.83 San Jose - 3 Vancouver - 3.67 Pittsburgh - 3.83 New Jersey / Washington - 4.67 Boston - 5.5 Rangers - 6 Predators - 6.33 Buffalo / Philadelphia - 6.67 Anaheim - 7 Chicago - 7.17 Montreal / Ottawa - 8 Calgary - 8.17 St. Louis - 8.67 Phoenix - 8.83 Dallas - 9 Minnesota - 9.33 Carolina - 9.43 Colorado / Winnipeg / Tampa - 10.5 Florida / Los Angeles - 10.67 Toronto - 11.83 Columbus - 12.17 Edmonton - 12.67 Islanders - 12.83 Average Finishing Position of Teams in Each Division: Atlantic - 6.94 Central - 7.26 Pacific - 7.66 Northeast - 7.69 Northwest - 9.09 Southeast - 9.37

I think you are incorrect. I think there are plenty of teams who have cap space now and next year who might be interested in a guy like Stafford. I would look at St. Louis who might consider him an upgrade over Andy McDonald is who a UFA next season. St. Louis could move him, clear $4.7m and bring in Stafford who provides a boost in offense and with St. Louis being a sound defensive team his +/- is less of a concern. I think the teams are out there who could use him. Miller we shall see. He has a NTC but it leaves 21 teams open for the Sabres to potentially partner with.

And a defense that allowed a forward to break out of the zone with speed. And a system that didn't turn the puck over at the blue line or could complete a successful forecheck to add pressure in the zone. He might have looked okay but with this skating I don't think he would have handled it very well on a team that played with a greater speed. He was constantly caught from behind by other players. He was out hustled to almost every puck as well. He had a few nice moments but putting him on the top line or the second line would not have done much in my opinion. He simply is not ready for the NHL and this isn't a bad thing. He was the youngest player in the NHL this year while he was there. He'll be back and a new coaching staff will work with him. To proclaim total doom and gloom on the guy after 22 games is really reaching. (for those who are) and for anyone to say all he needed was more ice time I think that's crazy too. Christ, the Sabres have a lot of players who are more proven than he is and who are as talented as he might be who get a lot of ice time and they aren't succeeding either.

No one would give a 1st round pick for Gaustad and Brennan would clear waivers all day long. I think it's foolish to presume to know what 29 other GM's would do when we can't even figure out what DR would do and we spend much more time speculating about his actions. If I were making guesses as to the moves coming they would be: Leopold traded Pominville traded Gerbe traded Regehr traded (this depends on the teams that call and if Regehr wants to go to a top team with a great chance to win the Cup, Detroit or St. Louis perhaps) Stafford traded I think they will try and move Miller in the off season. I think the coaching staff will be gone and depending on the trades Regier can make at the deadline he'll be gone too. I think there are people inside the organization consulting on his moves just to provide some oversight. We're just not likely to hear about it.

Every player should spend time with Roberts. I would have liked more ice time for him as well but the truth was he was clearly not ready. However, he made it past the 5 game mark so you might as well keep him and get him some experience now while you still can.

Sorry if I don't quote posts.. reading 4 pages to get here makes it tougher. I totally agree with this move. I fully believe the plan to start the season was to have the Ott-Girgorenko-Leino line. Suddenly Leino is injured. Grigs plays his 5 games and he doesn't look awful. So you make a choice. Leino will be out for awhile and Grigs might be able to catch on at 18 so you keep him. This entire nonsense about a year of his contract is a red herring. No one cares, I think people make too much of it. The season progresses and you find that your team isn't working. Your coach is gone, nothing is improving. However, in order to keep your roster flexible you keep Grigs on the team. He's learning (something Paul Hamilton pointed out in his discussions). He's had assistant coaches working with him, they've been trying to improve his skating (because it is bad). He had nothing to learn in the Q except more bad habits. So, he gets some NHL experience. Leino is healthy. You need a roster spot. Porter is a center, you need flexibility with centers and you need to put him through waivers. If he gets picked up then you lose a C for flexibility. So if you have an injury you then need to call up Luke Adam, etc. and you hurt your Rochester team all for a Sabres team that is not going anywhere. You don't want to send down Flynn because he's been producing. He's on his NHL trial right now. So, you move Grigorenko because it's the smart thing to do. He can come back and he's completely protected from being picked up. He'll play a more rigorous schedule and he'll potentially be around a winning club and under Patrick Roy. This is not a bad thing. I do think it's a tad convenient that Leino is healthy at the 22 game mark for Girgorenko. Sending him back to the Q saves the UFA status from being premature and that's really what matters isn't it? The Sabres will continue to have rights on Grigorenko and the right of first refusal if he's an RFA. If he flourishes he'll get a contract, if not then they can see what others things he's worth and match if they want. It's not a stupid move. Now, we see the trade of Brennan. This would have left room for Grigorenko to stay as well. It SEEMS stupid. Except most people have determined that Brennan is useless. You could waive him back but clearly Florida would have taken him for free on waivers if they were willing to give up a 5th rounder. So, now DR has a 5th round pick for a player we don't want and would have been lost for nothing via waivers. That's not stupid. What's the plan now? Well, the Sabres have a roster spots opening up. My guess is that more players are going to get their NHL trial. I still think more players are going to be moved. I think the appearance of uncertainty really only extends to the firing of Ruff and I can see where the loyalty and long-term relationships made that a tough call. Especially in a shortened season when you don't get big breaks between games to make a choice on things. Call me the optimist, but I try to keep emotion from overruling solid reasoning. There are other trades I would make as well but you can't give pieces away.. I think it's coming.

I've seen improvements at times and then there were times, and it happened last night, where the Sabres were just stuck. The Devils kept two guys hammering the D and the Sabres had no answer. They kept flipping the puck around and could not get it out. If they did it was to the red line and it came right back in again to cause more problems. I think their d-zone coverage has looked a little better but when it comes to clearing the zone with possession I don't see it. Under Ruff, under Rolston, they keep trying to hit a winger who is parked with his back to the rest of the ice and expect that guy to be able to turn and move the puck before being checked and it continually doesn't happen. The D-men are not skating the puck out and that's part of the problem. They also try and dump the puck off to a guy that is 6 feet away and wonder why the forechecker gets pressure. It's kind of like the same stupid play they keep trying on a PP where Ennis rushes to the blue line, dumps it to the guy who is standing at the blue line with the intent that the point man will get it back to Ennis as he goes by the defender. It's a great idea, but it never works. Instead the defender, standing 3 feet inside the blue line pressures the point man and the puck comes right back out of the zone.

It's an interesting thought. Of course how much of it is because he didn't cut it here? Did he get boned over and now has a beef with the guy? This season will show what RR can do. I see improvements in some areas but the defensive zone breakouts and recovery are awful. They look lost in their own end.

That's pretty cool and a good move. If you think about it, most NHL'ers have kids who play hockey and they want them in a good organization. If you have that to offer to potential prospects all the better. If you are really interested in developing Buffalo as a hockey hotbed then this is a good move. I like it.

Given that they usually play that song when the kids are on the ice I suppose it's fitting.

Well... use a shoulder? Steamroll the guy? That's life. :)

So now Ray will confuse Ehrhoff with Enroth.. should be entertaining. HOnestly I hope we see something good from the kid. I'm just happy they are playing.. even if they frustrate me to no end.

Disturbing.. i can't even imagine. The paralyzed player had the right position with his skates out but clearly the player in yellow had enough force to get him over the edge of the skate. Airborne and done. Ugh.. that's just awful.

It's clear he demands his players actually hit. I wouldn't expect all of them to adapt really fast but there are clear differences in the compete. (Jesus, I said it.) I think giving Gerbe playing time is a great thing. I know people are against him for so many reasons but he's rarely a liability on the ice and he plays with a fire that most hockey players, regardless of team, don't show. He's a spark plug, when a guy his size is out there playing bigger than the rest of the guys on the team they have to take a look at themselves. I see Myers improving, although I still wish he'd hit people. Perhaps some day. I like what I've seen from Rolston so far. There's a LONG way to go.

After carefully reading all the responses in this thread I've just one thing left to say... HItler.

Strange, I seem to still see hitting in hockey. You can bitch about the rules all you want, but they are the rules. It's that simple. Having a child who was just concussed playing hockey and has been the recipient of the EXACT SAME thing Kaleta just did to Richards I can tell you that when I saw it last night I thought Kaleta should be gone for 10. I don't care if Richards is injured or not. Could it have been a harder hit? Sure. Does it matter when the player reaching for the puck doesn't expect a hit from behind? No. Richards is playing the game according to the rules. He's going for a puck and the intention is to stretch forward to get it on the stick and then pull himself back up. At the point in time he reaches Kaleta hits him. Richards is leaning forward already and is unable to respond in time to the hit. The fact that Richards did not miss a shift is definitely why Kaleta is not getting more than 5 games. I don't care if he's practicing or not today. As for Richards, he's now just shown up a referee who made a call based upon the length of time he was laying there on the ice. Whether he was "stung" or not I can guarantee you that he could have gotten up and not embellished it half as much as he did. He's not likely to get some favorable calls in the future. Players have to live with that. Referees see video of where a player will jerk his head back to draw a high-sticking call. The next time they see the player they are bound to remember it and I am sure that makes them less likely to rule in that player's favor. Bottom line... it was a dirty, illegal hit and Kaleta, being a repeat offender will suffer. What's worse is that when he comes back he'll likely start getting the 20 foot glide charging calls that we saw last year.

Perhaps it stems from having a larger ice surface to play on and thus using the stick becomes increasingly important as getting your body to a point on the ice is more difficult? I'm not sure how they call stick infractions in the European leagues either.

I would disagree with d4rksabre. I think Rohrbach's beers have gone downhill over the pat 4-5 years. Right now most of their beers show signs of flaws in the brewing process and a willingness to use inferior ingredients. There used to be a time when I thought Rohrbach;s beers were some of the best in Rochester but that day has sadly gone by the wayside for me. But, to each their own. It's worth trying if nothing else. You can always visit the brewery (just outside the public market) or the restaurant/brewpub to get a sampler and test more of them out.

I'll give you that. :)

How he performed as a coach is in no way indicative of how he performed as a human being. Is it so wrong to show a little compassion for people who try their hardest and are unable to achieve their goal? It's certainly a lot easier to root for those people than people who sit around on message boards all day and pretend to be the coach of the team. He did the job, he took the heat. Sure it comes with the territory but it doesn't make it any less impactful on his life. He handled his departure and his time here with class. He might not have achieved the goals we all wanted but even with the losing team he never let things get away from him and for that we can still respect him. Respect is something we don't get enough of in this world. Instead we get a lot of this kind of crap. He's a professional coach, screw him, they get fired all the time. People in my position get fired a lot too, I'm not going to feel any better about it. Getting fired is confirmation that you weren't able to do the job and if you have even a modest sense of self-worth you'll not feel good about it. People are idiots. Most people speak in hyperbole and extremes. It's easier to just say "Fire the bum" than actually be intellectual about it. I thought he needed to go as well, but I wasn't happy about it. He put a lot of time into the team as a player and a coach and I'd be far happier to have him succeed than to have him fired. But when it was clear that the former was not going to happen I begrudgingly accepted the latter.

The thing is.. if ROR continues an upward climb and develops into a tough-nosed, workaholic leader on the ice is it so bad? What is the fascination with Myers? I'm curious how much worse we think McNabb would be from Myers. He's 1 inch shorter, has shown a willingness to hit. He's scoring at slightly better than .5pts per game (given a noted slow start too). He's the top scoring D on the Amerks and would be in the Top 10 on most AHL clubs (they make it difficult to pull stats). He's a plus player. I would say he can't skate like Myers, but looking at Myers skate right now do we really care? The Sabres are loaded with puck moving D. I mentioned in another thread that if Pominville's calming demeanor has anything to do with the lack of attitude this team has then perhaps this wouldn't be the worst trade ever. But straight up? Wow. That might be painful.

Swagger. Perhaps it is Pominville's laid back attitude that causes it. Perhaps he calms everyone too much. This team will win when the good players are doing what Gerbe did last night with Phaneuf. Whether that is possible given the current load of players is not something I will address. If every player had Gerbe's heart and determination we'd be a Stanley Cup champion. Note I said his heart and determination, not his ability win hockey games, because that's not there right now. At least he looks like he wants to play. I haven't seen Foligno hit anything since he laid out that monstrous tackle on Grigorenko.