dudacek

I'd have to revisit it to get the quote, but Donnie touched on the Sabres centre situation in his presser yesterday. Basically said something like "look at the first lines of the teams we play and their centres and how long they've been together and with the franchise and in the system" and implied that any of the four young Sabres centres can get there with time. Around 12 1/2 minutes in here: https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/don-granato-1322/t-277437090/c-10089961

His overall game hasn't vanished, just the best part of it.

Allow me to rephrase: is it ridiculous to project Quinn as a decade-long 35-goal 1st-line winger?

Is it ridiculous to project Quinn -> Vanek in terms of role and status? That's my hope for his upside.

What role do you see Murray filling? Ive talked around it in this thread, that I don’t know how to project him, and I wonder what others see him turning into.

I think production was the other one. Totally remember that article and also lived and died with THN back then.

The 86-87 team was a gold mine. The “Who?” list: Bob Logan, Dave Fenyves, Doug Trapp, Jim Hofford, Paul Brydges, Richard Hajdu, Orlando, Reekie and Mark Ferner The “He Played For The Sabres?” list: Mark Napier, Wilf Paiement, Phil Russell, Tom Kurvers, Don Lever Jim Korn, and Clark Gillies But who can name the forgettably-named second overall pick on that team who played a total of 162 games for the Sabres and put up a very respectable 89 points? Has to be among the most forgettable Sabres, who probably shouldn’t be.

In my view there is no way Zemgus is healthy scratched, or Asplund for that matter. They've talked up Z's leadership too much. If he's out, it's because they think he needs more recovery time. What is nice about that forward group is that there are 16 viable NHL options for Donnie to choose from. Yes 2 of them are still prospects, but we could literally ice a lineup that has only one of Hayden, Eakin, Jankowski, Bjork and Caggiula in it, and any one of those guys is a legit 12/13 in today's NHL. Baby steps.

What I meant with top 6 minutes is will he continue to be used in offensive situations with good wingers? The Sabres don't seem too interested so far in using guys like Krebs in roles like Hinostroza's or Eakin's. I think the goal is to have guys like Krebs pushing guys like Vinnie, Okposo, Asplund and Girgensons down the lineup and guys like Eakin and Bjork off the roster, rather than sliding them into bottom-line roles of guys like Eakin and Bjork. Personally, I'd rather have Murray and Krebs in Rochester than being 2/3rds of the 4th line. But if they are going to play higher in the roster, I'm all for keeping them up.

Randy Ireland

The whole point of this thread is discussing where he fits into a healthy lineup — which, from @Brawndo's new thread it seems we may now have.

I guess we can assume everyone's healthy? Move Zemgus up into the top 12 and that's starting to look a lot closer to where we hope it's going.

I'll ask the same question I asked in the Murray thread: will he continue to get top 6 minutes on a team that is dressing Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Olofsson, Okposo, Cozens, Girgensons, Asplund, Hinostroza?

Is Murray going to continue to get 14 minutes a night on a team dressing all of Thompson, Okposo, Olofsson, Tuch, Skinner, Cozens, Girgensons, Asplund, and Hinostroza?

Sure they can, but is Murray better off learning in The bottom 6 in Buffalo, or the top 6 in Rochester? I don’t think anyone would rather have Hayden in a middle 6 role than Murray, but I don’t think it’s that simple. Is Murray better than Hayden at Hayden’s role (4th-line defensively responsible offensive zone grinder and penalty killer). Do we want Murray playing Hayden’s role, or do we have higher aspirations for him? I don’t really have an answer because I’m just not sure where Murray’s game is going to go, or have a good sense of what the Sabres see him becoming. Here’s my take on R2: he’’s not good enough to ever be a top 6 forward or make his living in the NHL creating offence; the Sabres know it, and are pinning those hopes on guys like Quinn, Krebs and Peterka. But they do think enough of his game to wonder whether he can be an effective 2-way guy in the bottom 6 like Eakin used to be, or Asplund looks like he might become. That’s what they were trying to develop. He was given plenty of opportunity to make the transition and didn’t. At least not yet. Make the team under the Adams no-blocking system doesn’t seem to have much to do with being “better” than the JAGs; it more seems to be about ready to compete in the role they want you to eventually fill on a permanent basis.

Josh is better than Jimbo. I think anyone who says different is confusing team success with individual ability.

I have really noticed how Krebs precision has been a lot sharper in the NHL with linemates who see the game and the holes better than they do in the AHL. They always talk about how some goalies are better in the NHL, because smarter, more skilled players mean less chaos and more predictable reads. I think that’s true for passers as well. That said, Okie and Olli have been kinda slow to fully take advantage of what Krebs can bring. Kyle needs to give and go more, and Victor needs to shoot. Im getting real worried about how Victor’s injury has affected his game. He seemed to have taken such a big step in being a complete player prior to getting hurt.

I think Butcher is the only one who really struggles in this area. Dahlin’s issues in this area this year are overstated. jokiharju Bryson and Pysyk compensate most of the time with positioning and skill, but it does happen. But none of them are good in these situations.

The Sabres have been largely making choices based on what’s best for player development rather than what’s best on the ice right now. Does Brett have more to learn in Rochester? Or is he better off learning and building confidence in the NHL?

He played 4, but Krebs is 20 so the slide no longer applies, regardless.

The Adams Sabres have been remarkably consistent in their development principles this year. They envision Tage as a top 6 forward and they’ve played him as one. Sink or swim. They envision Cozens as an all-situations centre and they’ve used him that way. They envision Dahlin as a cornerstone D and they have used him that way. We saw the same approach with Mittelstadt in his brief time and we have seen it so far with UPL. Jokiharju. Krebs wasn’t asked to skate his 12 minutes with Hayden. He’s centring the teams’s two highest scoring wingers, getting time on the PP and was among the ice time leaders. Peterka didn’t come up to play with Eakin and Bjork and just not make mistakes. They dropped him on to the top line with Tage and Tuch and told him to play his game. Skinner comes back, JJ doesn’t get shunted into Hinostroza’s role. He gets sent back to Rochester to be the lead dog. It’s refreshing and not very NHL-like. It will be interesting to see how they handle Krebs when Cozens returns. It will be even more interesting to see how this philosophy manifests itself next year.

I’d be interested in whether those numbers hold up when you take out the period between Anderson’s injury and UPL’s recall.

Murray came up as an injury replacement for Caggiula. Caggiula is skating again and coming back off IR soon. When he’s back and the COVID list is cleared we will have 16 healthy forwards (Tuch, Tage, Skinner, VO, KO, Krebs, Asplund, Hayden, Eakin, Hinostroza, Murray, Bjork, Cozens, Girgensons, Caggiula, Jankowski) when we only carry 13 or 14. Murray has 2 goals and 6 points in 15 games, mostly in a bottom 6 role. He and Krebs are the only 2 who are waiver ineligible. Has he done enough to send somebody to the waiver wire?

I’ve not been shy about criticizing Jeff Skinner the two previous seasons, but I think his selfishness and confounding puck decisions are noticeably down this year, and his engagement level far more consistent. Generally speaking, he was a positive today and has been more often than not this year. Please Donnie, don’t use him in overtime. It’s just not his game in any way, shape or form. The body of work is large enough and the results speak for themselves.

I ***** hate Taylor Hall