dudacek

What I want see is more acknowledgement that Stillman, Greenway, Levi, Johnson and Clifton represent an attempt to do exactly that: size, strength, defence, experience and a #1 goalie on sensible contracts at the cost of some secondary futures. Five players on a 23-man roster represents a 20-25% turnover. It remains to be seen if they’re the right players, but, on paper, Adams has done exactly what you wanted him to. The time is now.

To be clear, I think Cozens is a better player and has a higher ceiling. I was mostly referring to my sense that a lot of Sabres fans don’t think they’re “in the same stratosphere” when the numbers last year said they kinda are. Production-wise, Cozens was the 28th highest scoring centre in the league last year. Mitts was 45th - basically a great 2C and a good one. In terms of puck possession, Mitts had a 51.5% to Dylan’s 49.4%, so a little above average and a little below. Mitts also had better defensive analytics last year in the models Ive seen. Analytics show each has an elite trait: Cozens as an entry guy (96th percentile), Casey as a setup man (98th percentile).

Again, being the 1RW on the opening roster does not mean he’ll be there tomorrow, or even in the 2nd period. Lines are pretty fluid things. Also, the Sabres have 13 veteran forwards (including Quinn) and 9 veteran defencemen (including Clague). They will have Levi and one other rookie on the opening night roster, which is easily absorbed by any team, even cup contenders.

As much as I dislike getting fixated into line hierarchies, if we’re going to label lines the Mitts line is pretty clearly the second line. The difference between Cozens and Mitts mat not be as wide as this board seems to think, and Greenway and Tuch are light years better than VO and Peterka, especially in the defensive end. I put a fair amount of faith into the preseason practice combos, that’s where players are getting the reps and learning how to connect. That said, people might be surprised at how little time “fixed” combos like Tage/Tuch/Skinner and Peterka/Cozens/Quinn actually spent together over the course of a season between penalties, injuries and special teams, never mind actual line juggling. Are we thinking Benson s sitting out this one, just making the trip as the spare? The others have all been linemates in practice. Same for Power?

We bought our 2008 brand-new. Still have it and it has never given me a lick of trouble. Easily the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned

Looked to me like Ryan Johnson has been playing on the right side during exhibitions. I remember reading he had played there in college, but over the past 2 years he’s been playing the left with Brock Faber on Minny’s first pair. Dahlins flexibility should give them all kinds of options, but I expect them to at least start the year with that R/L base

I liked Asplund a lot as a prospect: thought he was smart and hardworking. Never saw him as a key guy, but I did have hopes he could be a useful bottom 6 centre - kinda like some today project Kozak. When push came to shove he wasn’t talented/fast/strong/mean enough to translate his game to the NHL level. Don’t know that he was overrated as a player (don’t recall much angst about him being benched or traded) as much as he never fulfilled his promise as a prospect.

Mine too. Well, not as big a Bills fan, but she makes a point of watching with me every Sunday.

I’m not sure there is a combination that includes VO that we’d like. I kinda look at it as he’s the placeholder for Quinn. I will say that a Tuch/Mitts/Greenway line has the potential to be a load in all three zones. As in, I’d be comfortable matching them up against top lines in a way that takes the sting out of breaking up Tuch/Tage/Skinner. Also, we’ve seen variations of the above so frequently I will be kinda shocked if we don’t start the season exactly like the Tweet says. In my opinion, Benson making the roster, where Greenway and Olofsson slot in on the lines, and who the spares will be are the only things still up for debate.

Not arguing your point, which I think is valid. What I’ve heard from Adams is his goal of giving Granato options, and what I’ve heard from Granato is a desire to create mismatches: forcing the opponent to choose which line to target with its best defenders, and letting his other line(s) profit. In speaking to the latter, he’s specifically spoken about breaking up Tuch and Thompson, who he seems to regard as our 2 best forwards, and have each driving their own line. I think the success of Mitts with Tuch down the stretch - and the team’s success during that run - is feeding the thought process. I also wonder how much of it is analytically driven. Regardless of what they’ve shown in games, Thompson/Skinner Tuch/Mittelstadt have been consistent pairs in practices. Benson’s attraction for Granato under this plan comes from the fact his pesky two-way game may prove to be a much better fit with Thompson and Skinner in a top-six role than VO’s more passive offence or Greenway’s more plodding defence. Donnie doesn’t expect Benson to be Tuch, but he really wants him to be able to be at least Quinn because it would effectively give him the ability to ice 3 dangerous lines (Cozens/Peterka being the 3rd) instead of a situation like last year where neither the Cozens line, nor the Mitts line proved capable of succeeding 5-on-5 when used as line 2. Basically, I think Plan A for the above template was to plug Patrick Kane into the top 9. I don’t know that they planned for Benson to be his placeholder (or even to make him redundant), but his play is making it an argument.

If Benson makes the team, why can’t it simply mean that: a) they think he’s ready? and b) they think he helps them win? And if he doesn’t, why can’t it mean they think he’s not, and they don’t?

Paul Hamilton asked about that: Being new to the team, it takes time to get to know the system and the other players on the ice. Clifton thought there was a better way to do that. "Honestly [Don Granato] asked, and I only wanted to play a couple. It was more productive for me to get into practice, get reps, and learn the systems before I jump out there for a little preseason live action," said Clifton following Friday's practice. "But yes, I’m itching. The more games you watch, the more you want to be in, but soon enough." When it comes to veteran players, Granato makes it his business to find out exactly what they need to get ready. The Sabres head coach felt Clifton and Erik Johnson are in the same category, as neither has played yet in a preseason game, "They know what they need to get ready for a NHL season, and if they feel two games is enough, then it’s enough," said Granato following Friday's practice. "The other side is that the practices, the number of reps they get of system motions and movements in practice, far exceeds what you’re going to get in a game. There's tons more reps, and they’ve liked the practices and they’ve extracted that out of practice. And then the communication, they’re getting a rep and then 30 seconds later, they’re getting another rep and another rep. And every time they’re communicating back with their defensive partner and that scenario that just happened, they value that most."

Looks like they’ve updated heights and weights. Rousek is now a 200-pounder, as is Cozens. Kulich a sturdy 6’1, 186. And how about Rosen at 6’0” 173? Isn’t that like 2 inches and 15 pounds since he was drafted?

Stillman, Johnson, Bryson and Clague have been playing about as much as the schedule allows, while the actual top 6 have played 4 games combined, 5 after tonight.

Only thing surprising about that roster is that they’re still giving Cecconi and Davies a shot. The forwards are a very interesting group. Looks like the 5 most likely candidates (benson, Biro, Kulich, Rosen and Rousek for the last 2 spots on the roster. And my god, are they giving Johnson and Benson a hard look. They each played 3 games in 4 nights for prospects tourney and I think they’re each playing their 4th in 7 nights tonight. That’s 7 games in two weeks with a lot of hard practices mixed in. Donnie definitely wants to see what he has.

Not disagreeing with you, i just wonder what people thought of those players at the time (Crosby nothwithstanding). Would Jonathan Toews be Jonathan Toews if he hadn't won cups? Won't Jack Hughes be Patty Kane if he wins a cup and Mitch Marner if he consistently pukes all over the 1st round? Who knows what history will say about Power Dahlin, Cozens, Quinn, Thompson, Benson...in 15 years?

I’m with this, a Thursday game against a vanilla opponent in October still 3 weeks away has already sold 11-12,000 tickets? That seems way ahead of where they’ve been.

Right, but we want to know what he is in the 23-24 season 😜

I thought the clock was set by age at the start of the season? That’s what I’ve used and I thought that’s what Elite Prospects uses as well. Legitimately don’t know if there is an NHL standard, although I suspect there should be something defining age for purposes of the CBA. @Taro T might know for sure, if you aren’t. (Levi turns 22 on Dec. 27, for anyone wondering)

I don’t think so. Granato seems to be trending toward this, although we haven’t had a real good sense of how the D might line up: Skinner Thompson xxx xxx Mittelstadt Tuch Peterka Cozens xxx Girgensons Krebs Okposo xxx Dahlin Clifton Power Jokiharju Samuelsson Johnson yyy Levi zzz Leaving these questions xxx = Greenway (who is definitely in the starting lineup, it’s just a matter of where) Olofsson Jost Benson Biro Rousek yyy = Stillman Bryson Clague Johnson zzz = UPL Comrie With an open question of whether the 23rd spot will be a 14th forward, 8th defenceman or 3rd goalie? *** Greenway with Mitts, Benson with Tage, and VO with Cozens is how they lined up today and I’d be happy to start the season that way. I think Jost has the inside track on the 13th forward spot and Stillman the 7th D, but again just my opinion. I think in an ideal world the preference would be to keep 8 D, that’s just how the roster is built when taking the Amerks into account, and how the coach has said he prefers to practice. But I also think the GM values his 3rd goalie more than his 8th D and waivers may affect his decision in that spot. I’d trade a backup goalie to the highest bidder and keep Bryson - mostly because I’d rather have him in an NHL press box and the other candidates playing in Roch. If I can’t get anything for a goalie, I’d waive Bryson.

I’d agree, although I’d say Murray is in the mix as well. He’s been getting a good look in the exhibitions and acquitted himself reasonably well. If they keep 13 forwards including Benson, it will be surprising if 13 isn’t Jost. But I think it’s definitely 7 forwards in the mix for the last 2 or 3 spots. If I had to drill it down further, I’m saying Jost is on the team and Murray, Kulich and Rosen are Amerks. it’s Benson, Rousek and Biro fighting for one or 2 forward spots.

So So one of the bottom 6 to the press box and the other 5 to Rochester? With Tuch Mitts and Greenway the other line? Or Tuch to the first line, one of the bottom 6 with Mitts and Greenway and Benson goes home? It’s become abundantly clear they are seriously considering keeping Benson.

Good OP @GASabresIUFAN I think Ryan Johnson and Zach Benson are the camp revelations: both more skilled and closer to NHL-ready than the board generally thought. Johnson is kinda where Mule was in his 1st pro season. He’s got NHL skills and a mature game and he is eventually going to make Clague and Bryson redundant. He’s going to get called up at some point and never go back down. Benson’s got a ridiculous amount of game. His ability to process and execute with and against good NHL players is shocking to me. You watch guys like Reinhart and Quinn at that age, and they look like that against their peers, but needed time to adjust to make those kind of plays at the NHL pace. Benson can already. I agree with those who say he logically shouldn’t be ready and should be allowed to cook. It’s just that he seems so obviously ahead of Rousek and Kulich and Olofsson the others battling for the Quinn slot it’s hard to justify giving one of them that spot ahead of him. Guess we’ll see how he can sustain this over the next two weeks. Rosen and Kulich look skilled and ready to be first-line AHLers. They’re right where I’d expect them to be. I suspect Savoie is about there too after prospects camp and am disappointed we haven’t had a chance to see it. I’ve been disappointed in Rousek. I think Biro has the edge in the battle for the 13th forward spot if the Sabres choose to elevate a veteran instead of a kid. The idea that we could roll Mitts/Tuch, Tage/Skinner Cozens/Peterka is very intriguing to me from a tactical standpoint. Not sure if we’ve got enough good wingers to sustain that without Quinn. Which makes keeping Benson up even more intriguing. And I love the edge Stillman has played with. It’s something we need. I think he’s outplayed Bryson and Clague and am feeling more comfortable with him as the #7. The bigger, still unanswered question is whether Erik Johnson and Connor Clifton are what was missing from the top 6. I’ve also started to drink the Kevyn Adams Koolaid on the goaltending front. Not really because of camp, but camp hasn’t changed my mind. I don’t have a ton of faith in UPL, or Comrie, but also think the guy they keep will be adequate for the 30 games he plays - on a tier with the many adequate backups that populate the NHL. My comfort level is based on my faith the Levi will be a good enough #1 that over 82 games we’ll be fine.

Did you guys catch Dreger on SabresLive today? Confirmed Sabres interest in Kane and that they've already had conversations with Pat Brisson about him. Guess we might want to change the thread title.

Don't let the facts (or the way he's played) get in the way of your narrative. Pretty sure he said the exact same thing about Patrice Bergeron on a Bruins board in 2003