dudacek

I think the writing is on the wall. If Adams or (God willing) his replacement is serious about improving the team, Cozens is just the start. Tuch and Dahlin are the core pieces that work. Actions show it won’t be Zucker, Greenway or Norris leaving. The Laffertys and Brysons don’t matter. Multiple players from the group of Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Kulich, Power, Samuelsson, Byram and Clifton will have to be moved out in order to create space for the new guys coming in. Everybody is going to have guys they want to keep from that list, but you’ve got to give to get and you’ve got to create space for the incoming players. Those are the guys on the chopping block. Never mind the cap, the simple roster math doesn’t work otherwise.

Worked with Eichel.

I sorta hope it’s this, but instead of Kulich, plug in “off-season acquisition”. Flexibility with Tage allows the team to focus on best forward available, rather than a specific position. Also, pencilling Kulich (or Benson or Quinn) into the top six in September would just be repeating last summer’s mistake. In my ideal world, Zucker is the training camp F6 (after Tage, Tuch, Peterka, Norris and a player TBD ) and the only way one of those guys is in the top 6 is by beating him out.

Not sure exactly when Lindy moved Tage over. It was after he returned from his injury in late November, in order to shelter him in his recovery, and he has played some games at centre again since the switch. But he's been filling the net like an elite goal scorer — he's got 11 goals in his past 13 and is now tied with Ovie for 4th in the league — playing mostly as a winger. Now I'm not saying the move to the wing is responsible for his surge — he's produced this way as a centre as well — but I'm curious what people think about the switch. Where do you want him playing moving forward?

Gotta say, the game-winner was one of the better hockey plays we've seen from the team this season. Nice effort and hands by Norris, sweet finish by Tage. Can't recall ever seeing a goal quite like it; I wouldn't call it remarkable, but it was original: two forecheckers flanking a dman on either side like that, the sublime hand skills for the steal and pass, and then the patience gliding backwards east-to-west from Tage, before roofing it: skill, smarts, creativity, teamwork and effort — all in a clutch time situation. I'll take any little bit of joy this year where I can find it.

I don’t know man, I got 6 pages into this thread and didn’t see a single guy arguing with your takes, or touting him as some kind of thumper. Not saying they weren’t out there at some point, but it wasn’t a widespread thing. Anyone paying attention knew he wasn’t Pronger. 🤷

Rasmus Dahlin is the only player on this team who was a regular for Ralph Krueger. Byram played just 18 games for Granato. Mcleod, Zucker, Malenstyn, Lafferty, Kulich and Reimer have only played for Ruff. So if what you really mean is 2/3rds of the current team is on their second coaching regime and we are saying the team has notably regressed under the 2nd regime, I can totally agree. This is like Promo constantly excusing any bad goaltending by saying the team is *****. The players being ***** doesn't automatically excuse the coaching from being ***** as well.

I don’t necessarily disagree with most of this, Except - the way I read it at least - Lindy was brought in specifically to cut the umbilical cord and force the kids to grow up. He’s failed to do that, and that’s on him. It’s the “high-effort 4th-line grinders” who get their ice cut, not the bonus baby kids like Power and Cozens. Lindy agreed to the coach staff. Lindy has kept running out lines and roles that look suspiciously like Granato’s. It’s Lindy employing tactics and deploying players who are self-destructing in ways Granato’s teams didn’t. Maybe I was wrong, and he was always just a figurehead. But if that’s the case, isn’t that on him too, for taking the job?

One gets the sense that he will consider any organization that properly feeds his ego.

I know I'm going to get ***** on for this, but looking at the roster a playmaking top-6 winger who plays good defence would be the perfect complement to Norris and solve a lot of the team's issues up front. Guy by the name of Mitch Marner is available this summer

Look, all teams are an amalgamation of many pieces performing many roles and their success is the sum of those parts. Most good teams have mostly good performers as slotted into their proper roles with an odd great one sprinkled in and not too many gaping holes. This is how I regard the Sabres based on how they were designed and how the pieces have performed respective to their roles this year Centre 1C Thompson (generating offence and winning matchups) Good, elite scoring, positive possession stats 2C Cozens (generating secondary offence and winning matchups) Bad, below-average offence, regularly loses matchups, drags his linemates down 3C McLeod (winning matchups, adding situational value) Good, wins matchups, skates very well, comfortably moves around the roster above-average offence for his role, kills penalties Wing 1st line Tuch (winning matchups, generating offence) Good, productive, well-rounded, big, fast, reliable 1st line Peterka (winning matchups, generating offence) Fine, his numbers are solidly average for his role, his defence needs to be better Middle 6 Quinn (winning matchups, generating secondary offence, providing situational value) Bad, his offence is that of an average 3rd-liner, he's getting killed 5-on-5 and bringing nothing else to the table Middle 6 Zucker (winning matchups, generating secondary offence, providing situational value) Good, he's got excellent 2nd-line production, holds his own 5-on-5 and has been one of few bright spots on the PP Middle 6 Greenway (winning matchups, generating secondary offence, providing situational value) Fine, offence and availability are below average, but he matches up well and his physical presence, and defence have been assets Middle 6 Benson (winning matchups, generating secondary offence, providing situational value) Adequate, his detail game is strong, but he doesn't provide any production to speak of Forward depth Malenstyn (adding situational value) Adequate, skates and hits like a truck, but hasn't really won his matchups Lafferty (adding situational value) Bad a huge disappointment, hasn't really brought anything of value Aube Kubel (adding situational value) Bad, barely played, the touted new 4th-line barely got a shot and showed little when it did. Krebs (adding situational value) Adequate, provides energy, improved faceoffs and draws opposition penalties, a wash at best in terms of matchups Kulich (adding situational value) Good, has held his own in the top 9 subbing in for injury and poor play Defence 1D Dahlin (all situations) Great elite offence, good defence, edgy — among the best defencemen in the sport 1st-pairing Byram (supporting Dahlin) Fine, formed a very good pair with Dahlin, spotty away from him 2D Power (anchoring second pair) Bad, plain and simple, he's on for way too many goals against Shutdown Samuelsson (go-to in defensive situations) Bad makes too many mistakes 5/6 Jokiharju (wins matchups, adds situational value) Adequate, holds his own but adds no situational value 5/6 Clifton (wins matchups, adds situational value) Bad makes too many mistakes, takes too many penalties Depth Bryson (mobile fill-in presence) Fine, feet serve him well in spot duty Depth Gilbert (physical fill-in presence) Fine, answered the bell, been a good teammate in a limited role Goalie Starter Lukkonen (start majority of games, win majority of starts) Bad, of the NHL 33 goalies who have played 30 games, he ranks 30th in S% and GAA, 20 starts with s% under .890 Backup Reimer (hold your own in spot starts) Adequate, hasn't cost them many, but he's only got 2 wins Insurance: Levi (fill in as needed) Bad, was good in his first two starts, looked overmatched since Front office: Coach Ruff and staff (roster performance): Bad, poor general numbers and declining results by most measures GM Adams (responsible for roster construction): Bad, next question Just six guys have played well in their role, over half the roster slots rank below average or worse. This from a team the GM expected to be in the race. The Cozens trade needs to be the first of many changes.

it was so glaring in Tampa that Kucherov — proven winner and one of the best players in the world — got benched for doing things Dylan Cozens does on a daily basis without any consequences. I expected Lindy to bring some accountability to this team. I haven't seen it.

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/josh-norris-pregame-at-fla-6369779321112

By all, you mean Don Granato? Because Rasmus Dahlin is the only player on this team who was a regular under Ralph Krueger. Granato put up a .457 when he had much of this group as actual NHL babies leading the way, supported by the likes of John Hayden and Vinnie Hinostroza. He put up .555 and .512 ”developing” this group. Lindy is .443 with a more seasoned version of the team - much better versions of Tage and Dahlin, plus guys like Greenway, Zucker, McLeod. I think a little dumping is warranted.

I’m trying to look at it objectively The team structure breaks down constantly. They try to play differently with the lead and fail. Their motivation and preparation is inconsistent at best. Their special teams are terrible. Individual players aren’t developing or improving; in fact very important ones - Power, Quinn, Benson, Cozens, Samuelsson, Lukkonen - have often looked outright bad. I think people are focusing most of their wrath rightly on Adams, and fans are usually too quick to jump on coaches because there is so much we don’t see. But Lindy’s past is giving him a pass. We are a poorly coached team. The eye test shows it, and most objective measures agree. He’s taken what most of you considered a poorly coached team last year and failed to make it better in any area.

It’s about the offence for them. Ottawa doesn’t create much of it 5 on 5, and Cozens has produced twice as many points as Norris has minus special teams. A lot of this stuff kinda rings true for the Sabres as well: Cozens had a similar profile in a similarly constructed room. I will say that when I look at the lineup projections, I find myself constantly feeling safer with Norris lines than I have been with Cozens lines. Norris may actually complement those two instead of getting in their way. Good call there, coupled with the sheltered offensive minutes in Granato’s “just go for it” system. To the reaction, I think we forget how much the NHL narrative is driven by the Toronto-based Canadian media. I am willing to bet the talking heads (and a lot of fans) have watched Cozens play more wearing a red maple leaf than they have in blue and gold. As the commentary has made clear, they haven’t watched the same things. Nine goals at the World Championships carries more weight with them than -19 against Carolina. I used to squint at some decisions/statements coming out of Sabreland and hand-wave that away with a “Lindy Ruff knows more about hockey than I ever will.” I’m not so sure any more. I have no idea what your thoughts Cozens have been this season, but the board consensus is he’s been terrible. How does that compute with “shoulda got more”? Other teams were watching him too.

Reading through a lot of stuff on Norris, the Sens, and their needs, it starts to become clear why the trade happened. Some things Cozens does better than Norris (neutral zone puck transport, 5-on-5 scoring) are things the Sens need in their top 9. And the things Norris does better than Cozens (special teams, faceoffs, puck management) are things the Sabres need in their’s. Also very clear that Norris is an immensely popular teammate.

Out of the 4 players in the mix right now for next year’s top 3, only McLeod is a pass-first player. Tage, Norris and Kulich are all finishers first. Agreed . As far as I’m concerned Tage has rebounded nicely. His D has improved and he is a beast offensively, a player other teams need to game plan for. Tuch is as good and as well-rounded as winger can get without being a star. I think that “3rd liner on a good team” stuff is ridiculous. He’s top 6 on any team and a 1st-liner on most. After that, you’ve got JJ as a first-line offensive talent you can’t trust yet against “real” first lines and Norris who should be a 2nd-liner. If those guys are your 5th and 6th forwards, you’re happy, 3rd and 4th, you’re crossing your fingers. Then you’ve got Zucker who played like a decent 2nd-liner this year, but is not likely to repeat it and a bunch of talented kids who looked to be in over their heads. We’re in pretty much exactly the same spot in terms of how we perceived the forwards last September, just reverse what we thought we might get from Quinn and Zucker.

The best thing I can say about Zucker and Greenway is that they are useful if overpaid vets who can contribute middle-six minutes. Probably better they did this than casting around the free agent market for replacements in July and overpaying more, or, worse, missing altogether. Bernard-docker in, Jokiharju out is…interesting? Jokiharju wore out his welcome here 2 years ago and was horribly miscast in this year’s lineup. But he is a better NHL defenceman than he generally gets credit for, and will probably do fine as the puckmover on a good team’s 3rd pair. I know little about Bernard-Docker, except that he’s an RFA and it won’t cost much to keep him. Similar age, size and draft pedigree - I guess the hope is he will be a bit steadier and defensively sound than Joki and a better fit roster-wise? The key thing is obviously Norris for Cozens, who are very similar on paper. Cozens at 2C was the team’s weakest link this year, IMO: a failure at a key role. The question becomes will Norris be any different? He’s slightly smaller and slightly faster (well, NHL edge has him as one of the league’s fastest players) and hits a similar amount. He’s a better finisher and a worse set-up guy. He’s produced more offence on a per-82, but is much less durable. Stylistically though, they are much different. One thing notably different in his profile is how he’s had better success defensively than Dylan in harder minutes. Whereas Cozens likes to carry the puck and wants it on his stick as much as possible, Norris is about fewer touches and quicker decisions. I hope this is good news as poor puck decisions were Cozens biggest issue. Will his more opportunistic, more patient game prove a better fit with some of Buffalo’s wingers? He’s a finisher, not a set-up guy, but the Sabres best playmakers seem to come from the back and their wingers can move the puck pretty well. So maybe his game works better than a more traditional centre/distributor with this mix? He’s also a good faceoff man who produces on the power play and kills penalties - 3 things we couldn’t really say about Cozens. 2C had become the most important fix for the franchise so I am glad Adams recognized it and moved to correct it, even if I’m not sure that Norris is the right move, or if he can stay healthy. And I am also sure that a piece of Adams core needed to be sacrificed. I think he sold low on Cozens, but that stock could still drop lower and the same could be said for the other candidates for trade. And the Senators may have sold low as well (a 30-goal centre for the player Cozens was this year is a steal) so there’s that. Bottom line: something needed to break. As far as I’m concerned Adams has forfeited the right to fix this, but if it’s going to continue to be his job, today was better than doing nothing at all.

I worry about Cozens’ upside and Norris’ injuries coming back to haunt us. I don’t think Docker is worth a 2nd any more than Malenstyn was. This seems like an iffy trade from an asset value point of view. In terms of on-ice play this year, no player has hurt us as much as Cozens. I will be very sad if Norris isn’t an immediate improvement in the 2C role. Bernard-Docker appears to fill a need. In terms of getting better now, I see it. What am I missing here ^^^? Im not surprised I guess, and I love Benson, but people seem to ignore how little offence he generates. Traffic isn’t his issue at all. It’s open ice and his inability to utilize it to create and finish.

Yes, I'd like to subtract some losses by adding some players Yes, line 1, thanks for catching that. Tuch and Thompson just works. ??? Thompson Tuch ??? Norris ??? ??? McLeod ??? Greenway and Zucker fill two of the ??? Ride with two of Peterka, Quinn, Benson and Kulich, swap the other two out for veterans who make plays, battle and defend.

It's weird to me that we went so quickly from: 3 emerging top 6 centres (Thompson, Cozens, Mitts) and maybe 4 more guys coming (Savoie, Östlund, Kulich, Krebs) To: 1 oft-injured top 6 centre (Norris) and maybe 2 guys coming (Kulich, Östlund) I hate Tage as a winger and I hate how they've moved away from him with Tuch on Line One and as the focus of the PP. Maybe Norris can run a 2nd line, and allow us to bring back the Tuch/Thompson combo on line 1?

Looks to me like he's what Clifton never materialized as. Pretty much the textbook concept of what a stay-at-home #5 RHD should be

Am I correct in reading this that the Sabres had decided they needed to move on from Cozens and were shopping him? Even though both the eye test and the analytics were crying for it, that seems unusually bold for Adams.