Drunkard

That one trade in and of itself is not tanking, but it began the tanking because it started the mass exodus of dumping every veteran on this team that had any trade value. Dumping Pominville alone may not be tanking but systematically selling off Pominville, Vanek, Ott, and Miller and then even Moulson is definitely tanking and the picks and prospects we got from that tanking is still a result of the tank whether the team you trade them to nets you the 16th pick, the 28th pick, the 30th pick, or guys like Larsson, Hackett, or whoever. Rebuilding is not always the same as tanking but rebuilding to the extent that we did is definitely tanking even if you don't finish last. If we somehow finish the season with the 28th worst record that doesn't necessarily mean we didn't tank, it just means we couldn't even tank right. Also, comparing the NFL and NHL is completely apples and oranges because when the Patriots trade a guy off for draft picks the player they draft is ready to suit up for them that very next season before a single game has been missed. When you trade a NHL player for draft picks (even 1st rounders) most of them won't be ready to play for you for several years.

Maybe I've got you mistaken with somebody else and if so, I apologize. There is/was another poster that basically said "feck the tank" is just about every game day thread earlier this season.

I didn't want us to completely rebuild either but once we moved Pominville the writing was on the wall. The downward spiral was basically inevitable at that point so rather than limp forward with no centers and pinning our hopes to Miller, Vanek, and Ott the best choice was to keep going forward with the plan and that's evident with the way Murray continued on with it by dumping Miller and Ott after Darcy dumped Pominville and Vanek.

The fact that the pick we got from Minnesota was the 16th pick is irrelevant. The tanking part of that move was trading Pominville even though he wasn't a pending UFA. He had an additional year on his contract and he had spent his entire career with the Sabres. I don't imagine we would've had any trouble resigning him but they were looking to do a complete and utter blowing up of the roster and rebuilding it from scratch. That's tanking. Rebuilding may not equal tanking in all instances but rebuilding to the extent that we did is the same thing as tanking. This team jettisoned every single veteran of any value whatsoever for future considerations. Rebuilding on that scale and knowing your team is going to stink/suffer/etc is tanking whether you want to admit it to yourself or not.

You forgot Zadorov because we never would have had him if we didn't trade away one of our best players who still had term on his contract because that was 100% a tanking/rebuilding move. I don't really care either way and he can criticize and say whatever he wants but it's hypocritical and I'm happy to point it out anytime the incessant bitching about tanking happens to get on my nerves. Well tanking got us the player in your avatar, so it's hypocritical to condemn the strategy while trumpeting the results of that strategy. Welcome to the dirt pile, comrade.

So now it's humor. You and inkman and several others have pissed and moaned about tanking non-stop on a daily basis, so when you make a statement like the one you made it isn't all that far fetched to imagine it continuing.

Yep. I guess he's a special little snowflake entitled to criticize and not be criticized. It'll be funny a few years from now when many of the anti-takers are sporting their Reinhart and McEichel avatars, usernames, and jerseys, praising their hard work and good play all while ignoring the fact that tanking was a necessary evil in order to get those particular players including the one Mr. Snowflake currently champions.

So if the tank doesn't work, those who were in favor of it need to exile ourselves in fear of your mighty crusade and if it does work all should be forgotten. Not sure if this is just whiny self-entitlement or if you just have delusions of grandeur, but I'm guessing it's both.

O'Reilly plays left wing not right wing and I'd rather buy out Hodgson than pay half his salary and take half his cap hit for the next 4 or 5 years. Teams usually only retain salaries on expiring contracts for that reason. Plus you can only retain salaries on 2 players at any given time so retaining half of Hodgson's contract would impede our ability to make deadline trades with cap challenged teams for the rest of the decade. No thanks on that.

I wouldn't move Girgensons, Reinhart, Ristolainen, Zadorov, or our 2015 or 2016 1st for O'Reilly. He's a good player and would help our team but I'm concerned he's going to seek (and get from somebody) a contract for more than he's actually worth. He's a center who can play on the wing and he's really good defensively but he doesn't score enough to command the $6 million he's currently earning and I don't think there's any chance his next contract will be a step down in pay or cap hit.

Don't worry. Come summer time we'll have 90's and triple digits with ungodly humidity adding to the heat index while you get to enjoy a much more temperate climate.

I'll take it any day over the temperatures most of you have been dealing with. The past 2 days I haven't even had ice on my windshield.

18F currently with a wind chill of 6F (expected high of 27). What's crazy is we're supposed to have a high in the mid 50's tomorrow and mid 60's on Sunday, then drop back down to highs in the 40's next week with a chance of snow.

Bummer. I remember them talking about the 3 year thing in order to discourage tanking for a single season. I figured it was going to help us out a ton so I expect to be out of the basement next season even if we don't make the playoffs.

I wouldn't trade our 2016 first under just about any circumstance. Next year's lottery is supposed to take your finish for the last 3 years into account so assuming we miss the playoffs, we'd still have about as good of a chance as anyone to get a top 3 pick because of our 30th place finish 2 years ago and our likely 30th place finish this year. Even if we finished 17th next season and had the best record of any team to miss the playoffs you'd still have to figure we're in the top 5 for a chance to get a top 3 pick and the odds only get higher with every spot we drop below 17th.

As a former Upstate New Yorker who lives in NC I do that whenever I'm running behind, but then again I live near the coast (Jacksonville, NC) and there hasn't been any snow near me, just some ice built up on the windshield in the mornings. My car windshield will usually defrost within about 10 minutes of me turning the car on (about 5 minutes for the back) so it's usually clear before I hit the bypass on my way to work. I clear off at about 75% of the drivers side of the windshield though but that's only about 40% of the total windshield.

Exactly. He gets injured quite a bit but that's because he plays with reckless abandon. He hits, plays defense, fights, stands up for his teammates, kills penalties, and stops pucks with his face. He still has a place on this team on the 4th line with guys like Deslauriers and McCormick. I'd rather see him on the 4th line at $1+ million than see Hodgson trudging along out there on the 4th line at $4+ million.

Fair enough, I guess. But if you are going to factor in that the kids are playing better then you should also factor in that Moulson and Hodgson are both producing much less which kind of cancels out the improvement of the kids. That still puts the downgrade from Miller and the downgrade from Ehrhoff making this year's roster worse. I think losing Ehrhoff was the biggest loss by far though and the biggest factor in our scoring difficulties. Even with him packing it in he was still on the ice for a big percentage of our goals and driving our offense and puck possession from the back end. Gorges is a good defenseman but provides no where near the offensive contributions that Ehrhoff did and is probably the biggest difference in or offensive struggles.

The roster is not nearly as good as last year. Miller/Enroth last year was much better than Enroth/Neuvirth this year Ott last year was better than Gionta this year Ehrhoff was heads and shoulders better than Benoit, Meszaros, Strachan, or whomever you consider to be his replacement so far this season. To say this year's roster is at least as good as last year is either completely wrong, foolish, or intellectually dishonest.

It's possible when you factor in Grigorenko will not be waiver exempt, and getting McEichel, plus Cody McCormick will likely be centering the 4th line. Either Reinhart plays with the Amerks or we shift some centers to play on the wing. Either way it will be a good problem to finally have a good stable of centers. It may also depends on which half of McEichel we get. No way McDavid gets sent back to juniors but I guess it's possible Eichel goes to Rochester after a 9 game stint. I just don't think we'll have 2 guys that green playing in our top 6. As talented as they are that's a potentially bad situation for an NHL team.

I think there's a cognitive dissonance between many people about toughness and playing well defensively. Players like Pominville, Myers, O'Reilly, and hell most of the Detroit roster play sound defense without being physically tough. If you get a label for being soft though, too many people just assume it means you don't play defense at all even though it's not the case.

Except Pominville was always good defensively.

25°F with a wind chill of 11°F here in Jacksonville, NC.

You called him limp wristed in another post. People get touchy on this board. I made an aids joke about Crosby and it turned into a homophobic complaint fest. Stick to jokes about eating babies and raping Canes fans. For whatever reason that's a non-pc comment that's completely acceptable.

Moulson Girgensons Ennis Kane Eichel Stewart (resigned) Foligno Grigorenko Gionta Deslauriers McCormick Kaleta extras: Flynn, Larsson, (maybe Mitchell if resigned instead of one of the other two) Gorges Bogosian Zadorov Ristolainen Weber Psysk extra: Strachan (resigned) or someone similar Goalies: I have no clue but definitely would happy with Niemi and resigning Enroth or Neuvirth Changes: I think Hodgson gets bought out, Psysk makes the club as well as Grigorenko since he is no longer waiver exempt. I think McCabe get another year in the AHL and I think Reinhart also goes to Rochester for a stint unless he blows it up during his 9 game tryout. While Reinhart and McEichel get their 9 game tryout I think the forward lines will be adjusted slightly to something more like: Moulson Girgensons Reinhart Kane McEichel Ennis Gionta Grigorenko Stewart Deslauriers McCormick Foligno Just a shot in the dark really, but then again that's the point of the thread.