Weave

I think it is also fair to say that KA has come to the conclusion that Jack doesn’t give the team its best chance to win GIVEN THE DIRECTION KA PLANS FOR THE TEAM. Not in terms of talent, but in terms of culture.

Stevens was a cheapshot as well.

I agree with Darth. Peca would be Kadri or Perry today. He was a cheapshot even then. But he was our cheapshot and I want another like him.

See, I genuinely believe that we can be better without Jack. It will require a few holes get filled, and it will require a competent 1C by committee. And it will require a couple key kids deliver. Thats a few ifs, but Jack being Jack, due to desire to be here or health, is a pretty big if too. And I believe a healthier team culture can be a strong factor. I definitely lean in the direction of Jack not positively affecting that.

Then rebuild, not burn the ***** down.

Ugh. I need to see a veteran top 6 C in the return. ideally I want the return for Jack to fill a couple of key holes. Then again, I have an irrational hatred for lottery ticket trades after 10 years of them.

It’s 3:20 and I’m 2 whiskeys in. I’ll go with that excuse.

I don't have any particularly strong emotions about Jack either way. I don’t find him a particularly likable player, but don’t dislike him either. I suspect he’s not a team guy, but he’s gifted enough that it is overcomeable (is that a word) with good leadership and enough talent. I don’t need to see him go, but I’m not at all convinced it’s automatically a bad thing if he does. I probably trust KAs judgement regarding whether he fits the mold for the team going forward more than any other GM Jack has had.

Seriously? Was he that bad a neighbor?

And I can’t keep everyone straight lol

I think it is an error to boil it down to these two choices. It wasn’t difficulty building around Eichel, and it likely wouldn’t have mattered much who the GMs were. You guys that still support the tank don’t appear (to me anyway) to see that the real issue was that the extent to which the team was torn down to guarantee a tank fruit made it damned near impossible to have an effective rebuild that wouldn’t take 7yrs. As mentioned up thread, the entire organization was a bottom feeder. The entire house had to be built from a hole in the ground. And that was unprecedented.

Yeah. That was the concern. Let me know when you want to have an actual discussion and maybe I'll participate further.

You haven't been here long enough to know who was raising concerns 5 years ago. Many of the voices now that are expressing conccerns were expressing concerns 5 years ago. And I was an ROR backer. So it's not same song, same artist, new lyrics here. You've been here long enough to have a feeling about that.

And I think character is probably not the quite right word. I'm not sure culture is quite the right word here, but I think it is closer to being correct. I've never felt like Jack was a team guy. From the beginnings with his reported disrespect for Gionta, Ive felt like Jack is a Jack guy. Even Sam defers to Jack. I think right from the get go it had to be about Jack. And I think that is what KA wants to change. Obviously, I don't have alot to back this up with, but thats how I read the tea leaves. If this is accurate (and I have nothing other than gut feel to go on) then I think the team does have to move on from him to really get to where they want to go. Or Jack has to change.

That is the literal reading of it.

Eye. To. Eye.

I am mildly proud that tank fruit has stuck. That is all.

And noone lamented Paul Byron being traded away.

This line of reasoning works because the rebuild was inseparable from the tank. 7yrs later its still linked. We had a tank so thorough, so unprecedented, that 7 yrs into it we are still in suffering. Jack is 24 and this team has still not recovered from the means that were used to acquire him. And Sam is a year older. 7 years is basically a pro athlete generation. Normal rebuilds are expected to take less time.

The only family I vacation with is wife and kids. I need my own space, pace, and activities if I am going to really wind down.

Well, this exchange started because you said Chicago was gambling with a lack of info, not with a likelihood that he'd have to defect or the USSR would need to collapse 8 years later for the team to ever see him in person.

It didn't go up for many years after. Mogilny was drafted 5 years later and still needed to defect. Hasek wasn't drafted earlier because scouting. He was drafted so late because it was throwing away a pick for a low chance shot.

NFW The gutting of that team was unprecedented. It was a rebuild to an extent never before done. Lesser guttings (Pittsburgh for Mario for example) took the better part of a decade to show fruit. The idea that we could do what has never been done before in 3 years is nuts.

I think Taro has it more right. Noone exected a bunch of Soviet block players to defect. The picks were serious gambles.

Call the trade. It would be your Roy for Ott moment.