Mango

It’s early so let me start there. But as I’ve posted post Calgary game, I’m starting to wonder if a lot of this is personnel not system. By that I mean, I think we have a core that plays fast offensive hockey. I don’t know that we need to change that so much as we need to do a better job filling in the gaps. I think we have to accept that even though they’re big Cozens and Thompson aren’t great two way players. And instead of having them shift their game, we need to help support their lines with more/better power forwards. The defense needs a younger version of EJ to play up with Power. If Clifton can figure it out as the season progresses, that third line will be fine. Go move Kulich, Rosen, and RJ. Bring in guys like Mieir and/or Chychrun. (Just throwing out last years names) We don’t need to change everybody’s game. They need to improve, sure. But they need help, not a makeover. We just need better supporting players for our stars. Last year we had a scoring line, a kid/prospect line, a middling line, and a defensive line. Instead of trying to make Thompson a different player just give him more help on the wing. Greenway - Cozens - Thompson was a great line, injured or not.

I don't disagree. But my point is what is that $6M providing to us right now? Would you rather have $6M in cap space or another capable, even often injured goalie on the roster? Even if you pay Ullmark $6M for 35 games. For $6M we could get 35 decent games from an NHL starter and given us the freedom to allow Levi to mature a bit in Rochester, maybe get 20 games this year, before thrusting him into 40, 50, 60 NHL games out of the gate.

I agree with you. I just meant that if Levi plays the lions share of games this year, 50-60 games. I don't know how much going back there is in 24-25. At that point he is the entrenched starter. Of course teams can always do whatever they want, but things do get tricky.

I want (need?) this team to make the playoffs so bad. But if there is a chance that Levi is this generational goalie that some say he could be then we need to protect his progression at all costs. This is less about this "day-to-day" injury and more about the work load we are anticipating for the kid. It feels like Levi is a lynch pin to the whole plan. If we break this kid I think there is a real chance we are back to the Eichel era of selling off all the pieces we acquired to start over.

I think that if Levi is the generational goalie that the Sabres seem to think he is, you protect his development at all costs. For a regime that has been so long term focused, this one is very desperate and short sighted. We save all of this cap space for "the future". And take a weird moral high ground in not "overpaying Ullmark". I just don't get it. WTF are we using the money we saved for now? Ullmark/Comrie last year and this year. Ullmark/Levi for 2024-25. Levin/??? 26. That feels responsible and still a very quick progression for a goaltender in the NHL. We didn't use the $6M last year and we aren't using the $6M this year. So if we aren't adding anything with it, we aren't saving it either.

I am high on Thompson the goal scorer. I do not like Tage Thompsons 200 foot game. But I can agree that historically Cozens has been a bit better in both directions. Both have played better with a power forward on their line. Part of the top 6 not producing is the top 6 giving up too many chances in their own end. I don't think it is as simple as separating their games in the offensive and defensive zone. We have been among the worst 5v5 teams 4 games in. That is not just a lack of scoring, although it would certainly help. I think we need another power forward to slot into the top 6. In regards to personnel/Adams, I totally agree. There are other issues on the roster that aren't helping. And it isn't just one offseason. Of course there were certain options that weren't available this season. But this roster is a conglomeration of not addressing defense and goaltending for 4 years. I am having a hard time understanding the plan as I start to put together the specific nuts and bolts. I keep hearing "we are young and we need to mature" on repeat. But like....where do all these guys go, and what is their value? I think you have to keep Mitts. So who replaces Girgenson, Jost, Krebs, Okposo next year? Or Greenway in 2025? We don't have anybody in the pipeline. We have better offensive weapons, but these guys fill a different role. What happens in 2025 with Quinn and JJP. This seems to be the easiest swap for some of the prospects. But if we are allowing these two to stumble in the name of progression, and we don't extend (we will), then what's the point of allowing them to stumble? What's the point in protecting the prospects if they never make the NHL roster?

I like this FO and HC. So let me start there. They are really hockey people who have helped stabilize a very unstable hockey franchise. But I have also been open to the idea that they are the Buddy Nix/Chan Bailey’s of the franchise. A necessary force to bring some more hockey respectability to a franchise who lost it a long time ago. Unfortunately they may have taken the franchise as far as they are both capable of. Which sucks. On the plus side, I think this is now an org that more senior hockey execs and HC’s would jump at the chance to be apart of. A lot of good pieces. A great pipeline. But needs a push to get over the top. Too early to commit to that being the case just 2 weeks in. But it’s certainly possible.

It’s possible. It was talked about last year. Something I am and was open to. But I also thought the team showed enough progress last year to give Donnie another season. The roster needed help, so you try and give your guys the tools to succeed and the freedom to fail. I expected the team to at least be a bit more fiery to open the year.

I totally agree with you here. But to answer OP’s question I think if this skid and more importantly this level of play continues we see Adams overpay (like waaaay overpay) to try and fix this in desperation. I think they could end up packaging a few prospects and picks to grab another goalie and/or defenseman. This FO has been open about playoffs, Stanley cup, and getting the fans back in and believing in this core. After 12 years, I don’t think the org can ask the players to ask for the fans trust (and $$$) this year and miss the playoffs.

To this point I think we have enough Ryan Johnson’s, Dahlins, and Powers. We need a blue chip guy who digs his skates in and stands hard at the blue line. Simialryl, we have enough Thompson’s, Cozens, Skinners, who can’t or won’t play both ways. The entire pipeline is chock full of those guys. It’s not a coincidence that Mitts/Greenway are standing out. The team lacks balance in approach and in personnel. Somebody mentioned that Greenway is looking better than Meier right now. Looks like the right decision. But honestly this team could us both Greenway and Meier. We’re just not tough enough in both directions. If we can provide high level support in both directions watch life get easier for Skinner, Cozens, Thompson.

I think that’s the point. OP is saying what we should be doing is asking “what’s best for our best prospect/goalie” and instead we’re saying “what do we have to do to not sink this ship”.

“At least we didn’t over pay” - Team with the most cap space in the league.

This feels like the hockey version of “But Edmunds is so young” that went on for eternity.

If this continues something is clearly broken with the admin and needs to be replaced. But not blown up. I just can’t put my finger on it. On one hand we don’t play any real defense. But this roster has really progressed under his tutelage. On the other hand, we have all these great forward prospects, but no defensive depth, no goalie; and no real plan/attempt to fix them.

The Erik Johnson post game is refreshing.

Finally got around to this. Did anybody else get the vibe that Jerry Forton seems to be doing a lot of the heavy lifting and taking the lead on a lot of decisions and actions. I tend to lead collaboratively but I just got the vibe that Adams was almost looking for approval from Forton rather than bringing him into the fold. Also I think his sister is the one who sells those big fuzzy water buffalo Bills hats.

I agree, but I think there is a chance they sit vs. Montreal and play him @Ottowa.

I don’t mind the contact. For me it’s not a matter of if we find value in it, but when. I can look over some of Powers deficiencies for a year or two. But by year 3 I need him to be playing at or close to AAV. That’s the only way we get good value on it. I also don’t think he’s way off schedule like some posters.

I spent the last 30 seconds or so wondering why the top line was out there to end the game short handed. Then they tied it up. I will say tonight was a better effort from the group. Some missteps, but Skinner gets a goal and Thomers was tossing his body around quite a bit at time.

Jochen Hecht would like a word

I don't think it is falling either. If we can get the the top two lines going I will feel a lot better, even if we lose a 3rd in a row. From a schedule/house keeping perspective losing to TB isn't the worst. But one thing I am paying attention to this year is linking losses together. That includes OT loses. No real data, but in a quick scan of last years standings, most playoff teams only had ~4-ish 4 game skids and almost never went over 4 games. For me last season was more about going on losing streaks rather than total number of games lost. Starting with 3 losses would suck, but it is manageable. I think my nerves will start tingling quite a bit with 4 loses. I can stay positive with a 3-6 start but the team never loses more than 2 in a row. To me that would read as an improvement from last year. The 22-23 team would turn something like that into 9 loses.

That 3rd line is the only one working at the moment. I’d be hesitant to change it. My first inclination was to have Mitts center the first line and move Thompson to the second line. But again, the third line is the only one working. This sounds crazy, but both the first and second line had good shifts vs the Islanders with Krebs subbing Thompson and Cozens. Feels stupid to say, but it could be one of those things where “if it works it works?”…even if it’s only a short term fix?

I agree. The only reason I think he may bounce back and forth a bit is that he is young and small. 82 games against brown ash men is a huge jump for an 18 year old. As of right now I don’t see him going down permanently for the year. He’ll play more than 9.

I can’t believe I’m going to do this, but I think the order of best to worst on that line to open the season is JJP, VO, then Cozens. Skinner had a bad turn over or two but both centers have been bad two games in a row. It’s not a get out of jail free card, but it also matters. Somehow Casey Mittlestat has is quickly moving from my most annoying player on the roster to my favorite. Really like his game these days.

Math checks out!