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I think we can both agree on that one. You mentioned it earlier, they've been doing it half-assed for over a decade and it's done nothing but cost us money. I want to go back to the days where our military was here for our protection, and our protection only. Observe from afar, engage when needed.

To me, this is a highly impractical solution. To your first, while it may seem like a good idea to us, to liberate nations, it's really not for us to liberate. What may seem like liberation to us, is hegemonic to others. To your second, instilling the concept of Enlightenment is exactly what Islamists are trying to do to everybody else. By trying to instill an ideology, we're just as bad as they are. Teaching/enforcing Enlightenment either through Christianity, or attaching it to Islam is only going to create more problems. As a few have asked, "Would ISIS exist if we hadn't stuck our nose in the Middle East where it doesn't belong?" Most would agree ISIS wouldn't exist. What makes anybody think getting in deeper into their society is going to make it any better? This is how dictatorships begin, we may not see it that way because to us there is a more plausible end game............then again dictators didn't see themselves as bad either. The Middle East has a population of between 180,000,000-240,000,000 depending on how you define 'Middle East'. In the US, as much as our infrastructure is failing, we still have the framework to further education, utilities, industry, etc..... Yet even with the framework in place we still can't make it work right. If we try to restructure the Middle East, we're going to have to start with the framework before we even get to the point of liberating these nations. On a smaller scale, we are already doing this and it's not working. If we were to take this to a large scale operation it would take trillions of dollars. We don't have it, it's that simple. We're borrowing money from China at an unsustainable rate, we would have to borrow even more to accomplish this and we're not getting any large scale cooperation from our allies to even think they would put a dent in this "restructuring". China can cut off our credit any time they feel like it, and they couldn't care less what happens to the Middle East. If they see that their money is going to rebuild other nations, they'll cut us off and our economy will collapse. Americans are pissed now as it is that we're slowly dropping in the ranks of the world's most prosperous countries. There is no way any administration will get the support to spend OUR money rebuilding nations as we continue to drop. Much less do it for 50-100 year at the expense of trillions of tax payers money. Even if an administration does get support, every time power changes hands from one party to the other, they will try to undermine any rebuilding. I asked for opinions and you answered, I appreciate your views. I just can't get behind them; it's unrealistic. I couldn't agree more. Little progress has been made, at some point you just have to pack up and say 'we did what we could, it's your turn to figure it out if you want to rid yourselves of these radicals that are ruining it for everybody'.

EXACTLY!

Serious question to those who think we need to get more involved. What do you propose we do about it? I'd like some basic details, I've heard a couple of ideas tossed around. I'd like to hear more.

It's not our government's responsibility to solve the problems of other countries. It's their responsibility to protect us. We don't have the money to keep solving problems. I agree we need to do it whole-assed, but my 'it' might not coincide with yours.

We've been doing the work, where has it gotten us?

I forgot all about that, didn't realize it was only 10 episodes. I'm a big fan of movies/shows about past wars. Thanks for reminding me.

Including their own governments.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

It's the thought that counts. Maybe I am just old. :D

I have no idea what you just said.

Which of these shows that have been mentioned (perhaps ones that haven't) would be a good series to catch up on over the winter? I'm looking for something to pass the time for when OITNB and Game of Thrones starts. I watch House of Cards which starts in February, but I need something else to fill the time. Preferably on Netflix, HBO GO or Showtime; whatever I can get using Roku.

Dude, don't tell me that...................

The argument over semantics is useless, the argument over recognizing there is a difference is hugely relevant, however.

Did anybody just watch 60 Minutes? Pelley did interviews with a couple of the witnesses, one of the guys ended up getting shot. They played some footage that I hadn't seen released yet. I just can't imagine............

Kinda like mass shooters and blaming guns.............

Nice.

I really don't have a problem with the way any of the vets have been playing. I don't think we were expecting anything out of Legwand and he's been surprisingly noticeable on offense. Moulson is on a 20/20 pace (close enough), and as has been mentioned most of that is on the 3rd line. I think Gionta has been getting way too much criticism lately, I think he became the default whipping boy before the season even started. Of the two games I attended down here Gionta was one of the better players in the first game, he was the best player on the ice the second game. Stats don't always indicate level of play. Moulson will get better as the team begins to gel. Some people are ready to give up on players the second they're over the hump. When you have guys like Kane, Ennis, Eichel, O'Reilly.............. those over the hump guys aren't here for scoring, they're here for leadership. As soft as players have become I think veteran leadership is more important now than ever before. I'm not going to look at the stats and judge whether or not these guys should be on the team, their responsibilities lie where we can't see them.

It's the military-industrial complex at work, the government making the rich richer at our expense. The Middle East is just easy pickins' and oil sounds like a great excuse.

Damn, even Hodgson managed 2 points and a +1.

Are they different because one is preventable and one isn't? I think we can all agree that Hillary is the Establishment. Being right of center, or left of center depends on where she's speaking that day.

Your typing is impeccable. You haven't had enough.

Posting gun stats in a death debate is no different. Death by guns in a war is irrelevant because most of those people were going to die regardless........... it's a war. Death by guns since 1968 can be mostly attributed to gang related ghetto violence. Somehow I doubt most of those people said, "I was going to shoot you because you're in a rival gang, but since I don't have a gun, you have a nice day and I'll see you tomorrow." 1,000,000+ dead in either of those stats didn't die because of guns. They died at the hands of guns in situations they were most likely not going to get out alive in the first place. Same thing with the suicides. I thought we've been over this. By the way, thanks you for your avatar. I know what I'm making for dinner tomorrow.

I agree, gonna be some fun games. Would be a nice time for a couple of guys to break out of their funk.

Of the next seven games, two against Dallas, two against Nashville, two against St. Louis. I'll be happy to come away with 6 points.