nfreeman

Get the D back to a reasonably healthy state and see how they look in the 2nd half of the season. If they deliver another 80ish point season pace in the 2nd half -- seriously consider whether the game has passed DDB by (like, e.g., the NFL game apparently passed Rex by).

Be careful, my friend. This is what they do. They get you kinda psyched to watch a game and then, when you've got your food and your drink and your spot by the TV all set up -- they pitch a stinker.

Well, as someone noted upthread, the correct comparison isn't the additional goals those guys would've presumably delivered vs zero -- it's the goals they would've delivered vs the goals that were delivered by their replacements, including on the top PP (which has performed surprisingly well all season, including while those guys were out). It's also important to remember that every team has injuries -- so again, the correct comparison isn't this team vs a 100% healthy team -- it's this team vs a team with an average amount of injuries. I don't dispute that injuries have set the Sabres back, or that with better luck in that department plus better performance in the SO, they might be on the bubble. I just think we as fans are entitled to evaluate them based on their results, and to give as much (or as little) weight to the injuries as we see fit.

Game on! Will Carey Price finally rise to the occasion vs his nemesis Anders Nilsson? Will Casey Nelson give Shea Weber another lesson in NHL defense, toughness and general manhood? The Habs are in 1st place in the division but a so-so 4-4 in their last 8. Patchy is having a nice season with 21 goals so far.

awesome.

Well, I'm willing to stipulate that any team that makes the playoffs and finishes with fewer than 20 regulation losses is exempt from criticism on the "not really .500" basis. Separately -- Taro and Liger -- pls settle down. We got Liger back and I'd like to savor the moment.

It's all part of the proh-cess, you hoser.

I don't think we're arguing in a vacuum. I think everyone here is well aware of the various difficulties the Sabres have been confronted with this season. I think everyone here is also capable of considering those difficulties in evaluating the overall state of the Sabres. Some of us think GMTM deserves a pass, while others do not. No one is pretending that Eichel and Kane didn't miss games -- it's just that some people think that even with those (and other) setbacks, the team should be better than it is.

I will ask you again: if the Sabres are well out of the playoffs again next year, should GMTM be accountable?

No. The Sabres are not .500. They have won 17 games and lost 27. If we want to pretend that the definition of .500 should disregard OT and SO losses -- enjoy your 82-point, bottom 5 in the NHL team. At least they're ".500"!

No need to guesstimate. Eichel's been back for 23 games. The Sabres are 10-9-4 in those games, for 24 pts. That is an 86-point pace for the season, or 46 pts in 44 games. As it stands, they have 43 points in 44 games (an 80-point pace). So it's fair to say they would've had 3 more pts -- so instead of 3rd-last in the NHL, they'd be tied for 5th-last. BFD.

So is Nilsson, who is starting tonight, officially getting a chance to seize the #1 job? Discuss.

OK -- but the ultimate point remains: the look-good-on-paper additions haven't translated into materially better results. That is on GMTM.

Quite a drive-by from Liger! I'm hoping for more.

I don't really agree with the "failed/failing" characterization of most of these moves -- except for Moulson, which has been an utter debacle -- but I completely agree with the ultimate point: GMTM is accountable for the results. The results have been poor. Good post. I completely agree that it isn't the failure to make the playoffs that's such a letdown as much as it is the failure to be competitive. I agree with much of this too.

I think TT would rather go elsewhere than renegotiate with the Bills -- and if he does go elsewhere, he'll get as least as much as his current deal with the Bills would've paid him. No one is going to take Dareus' contract.

Do you think they will make the playoffs next season? If not, and if they end up with fewer than 90 pts again, will you still be OK with GMTM?

"Fleabag" on Amazon Prime was a pretty decent comedy mini-series. Good for watching with your significant other if he/she doesn't mind a bit of raunchy humor.

Let's go back to 2011. The Pegulas had just taken over and the Sabres lost in the 1st round to Philly in 7 games, after being up in the series 3-2, and up by 2 goals at home in game 6 with the opportunity to close it out. (A series in which, btw, and apropos of the "clutchness" discussion in a different thread, the Sabres "top 6" scored a total of zero goals in the 2nd and 3rd periods of all 7 games.) At that point, they were pretty close to having the status I described -- i.e. a 2nd-round playoff team with a good coach, good goaltending, good ownership and good players. And, that summer, although they didn't get Richards, they got the 2nd-best UFA forward in Leino (who turned out to be a bust, but he was still the 2nd-best UFA forward) and the top UFA defenseman in Ehrhoff (who was a solid player but not elite). Neither player was the type of elite player I mentioned, but neither was paid as such, and both represented incremental improvement. We all know what happened next. Just like after Black Sunday, the Sabres' mental midgets hid under the bed and cried the following season, Lindy was fired in the middle of the season after that, and the tank was on. My point is that if the Sabres had made better decisions in that period -- the 2011 and 2012 offseasons, plus the drafts in the prior years -- i.e. bringing in a couple of good forwards with some heart and probably a different GM to run the show -- they could've built upon what they did in 2010 and 2011 (close 1st-round losses both years), instead of falling off the table and then burning the house down. Here's who they drafted in the 1st & 2nd rounds from 2006-2011, btw: Dennis Persson Enroth Mike Weber TJ Brennan Drew Schiestel Myers Ennis Luke Adam Kassian Pysyk Armia That is a freaking pathetic yield for 6 years' worth of top picks. I will also point out that the Sabres have in fact been able to get guys like PLF and Hawerchuk -- ie no-BS NHL stars. If they put a real team together again, they'll be able to attract top players. But they are far away from that now.

Except that he's shown no sign that he's on that level.

They sho'nuff aren't coming to a bottom-5 team. But a team that's in the 2nd round of the playoffs every year, with fancy new facilities, a good coach (hypothetically speaking, of course) and Daddy Warbucks throwing money at the situation? Many wouldn't come, but some would. Parise and Suter went to Minnesota, Hossa went to Detroit, etc.

False dichotomy. And another one. The point, in other words, is that the choice isn't, and wasn't, between tanking for Eichel and being lousy for Hanifan. It is/was between tanking for Eichel and methodically building and maintaining a good team that is in the playoffs every year and incrementally improves every year -- and seizing the opportunity to go over the top when a Pronger or Hossa or Thornton or Seguin or Kessel or other elite player pops loose, which happens regularly. That way you don't become a chronic loser and subject your fans to a decade in the wilderness.

Who has said that Hossa, Keith and Ladd aren't good leaders? There is no question that Chicago assembled a great team, with contributions from multiple great players. (I wouldn't put Ladd in that category though -- he was a good player whose game has fallen off the table the last few years.) As for not believing in "clutch" -- I could not disagree more. The playoffs are a different animal from the regular season. It's a harder game, and tougher to produce. Over the long haul, clutchness -- determination, focus and grace under pressure -- emerges. For example: Derek Roy, as gutless a player as the Sabres have ever had, "put up numbers" every year in the regular season -- and had 7 goals in 49 playoff games (2 of which were in 1 game, the incredible 7-6 win over Ottawa in 2006). Danny Briere, the most clutch Sabre ever, had 53 goals and 116 pts in 124 playoff games. Toews has 39 goals and 108 pts in 124 playoff games.

I think you misinterpreted my post. My point is that it is rare to land an elite generational player -- i.e. most #1/#2 draft picks do NOT fit that characterization. For every McD, there are 10 RNHs/Yakupovs/Halls/Fleurys.-- i.e. mostly good-to-very-good players (and some JAGs), but very few transformational players. That -- along with the prohibitive odds of winning the lottery in a year in which one of those guys is available -- is why the tank is chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Good stuff in here boys.