nfreeman

1. Bert 2. Dom 3. Rico 4. Schoeny

But that’s MSG doing that — not the team! Game, set and match.

It should be very clear to Mitts, Vesey and ERod that they are going to need to bust their a**es if they want to take 3rd line minutes away from Larson’s line. Right now they seem miles away from getting there. The difference between the 2 lines in zone exits and in setting up the forecheck is like night and day. Who on the Sabres does this? RK has explicitly and repeatedly disavowed this. Frankly this sounds like an unsavory whispering campaign by someone who knows he’s painted himself into a message board corner.

I agree with all this although I don’t think Miller is a defensive liability. He seems quite smooth and skilled with zone exits.

I think we all need to be honest with ourselves at this point: we're now at about a hundred Sabres coaches, including RK, whom everyone loves, that have decided to play Risto this much. I think many, and likely most, generally agree with you that he has real value, and would only trade him for a really good forward who would instantly take Sobotka's spot and make the top 6 a very dangerous group. Now that is an amazing offer. What do I have to do exactly?

I thought that was Hoffman, an elite NHL goal-scorer, making a great shot into a small open spot -- whereas I thought Ullmark misplayed Florida's first goal. I'll be curious to hear the results on tracking this. I don't think shortening the bench in the last 8 min or so to 3 forward lines and 5 D is materially taxing, unless maybe it's the 2nd game of a back-to-back. Separately, that was another good and entertaining win in which they were knocked back on their heels at times but still gave well as good as they got. My game notes: - The 3 best passes of the game were the 2 KO assists and...Sobotka to Skinner in traffic for the great scoring chance! - Excellent game from Ullmark other than Florida's 1st goal, which was a huge momentum play. - RK: "world class goaltending on both ends." - Scandella is reborn under RK. - Risto: 25 min, 24 seconds. - Olofsson and Jack both passed once when they should've shot. - Reino had a couple of nice passes in the 3rd but otherwise not much of a game. I didn't like Mitts' or Erod's game either, although Mitts contributed the winner in the SO, which must've felt good.. - Larsson's line is the third line I say. - It's emerged that Vesey consistently gets VO's 5-on-5 shifts with Jack and Reino in the last 5-8 min or so in the 3rd period, and that Mitts (and Erod too I think) stays on the bench with Olofsson. I think tonight was the first time that the same has happened with Dahlin. That is fine with me -- he was pretty shaky tonight. - It's been a looooooooooonnnngg time since the Bills and Sabres were both 4-1.

No. When Lucic was at his peak he was a major force on a very good team. He scored, intimidated and produced in the playoffs. Reino hasn't approached that level yet.

By the by, it looks like Pysyk has been healthy-scratched for all but one of the Panthers' games this year, including tonight.

You just made the death list buddy.

This is obnoxious.

If I felt confident that Mitts' line would continue to score, or would ever score again, I'd be less concerned. But Sheary, the lone goal-scorer, is out week-to-week, and Mitts and Vesey have been completely ineffective since Game 1.

Well, this is a great post. I will disagree with a couple of points though: 1. As I stated in the OP, I think it's more accurate to call them the 3rd line. They are playing 3rd-line minutes and they are (ably) filling the traditional role of a 3rd line. I recognize that this is kinda just nomenclature and non-substantive, except that in a sense it affects the analysis, because... 2. Again, they are playing 3rd-line minutes -- up to about 15 min per game at this point. (I spot-checked about a half-dozen of the guys on the list you posted and most were at about 11 min per game -- which is closer to 4th-line minutes). My question was whether, given this ice time, the Sabres need more offensive production out of them. I don't think they are going to outscore, or score an equivalent amount to, most NHL 3rd lines. I agree that the real answer is that additional production is needed from Mitts' line. I'm just growing pessimistic that this is going to occur. And if another month goes by and we find ourselves getting scoring only from the top 2 lines, I think we'll need to at least consider some reordering of the 3rd and 4th lines.

I think he got beat and it was pretty close to one of those "WTF are you doing" moments. McCabe yelled at him afterwards -- which I kinda liked as a leadership move.

There's been a fair amount of discussion on the Zemgus-Larsson-KO line in the Habs GDT and elsewhere, so I thought I'd start a thread. My 2 cents: - This line, and not Vesey-Mitts-ERod, is clearly the "3rd line". Larsson's line gets substantially more ice time and adds substantially more value than Mitts' line. - Larsson's line also plays the traditional "checking line" role that a 3rd line has been thought of as. - As @Randall Flagg and others have noted, this line is doing a fantastic job of muscling the puck out of the D zone (despite a heavy D zone start %age) and into the O zone, and maintaining a strong and punishing forecheck in the O zone. - What I haven't seen though is how often this line is matched up against the opponent's 1st or 2nd scoring line, as opposed to "easier" opposition. - My pinch of salt on this is that although they are highly effective at establishing an O-zone forecheck, they are not at all effective at converting the forecheck into actual production. I think they had one good scoring chance last night vs the Habs. I generally don't expect them to score a goal more than once every 3 or 4 games -- and I think they have one goal between them this year so far in 4 games. If that continues to be the case, are they really that valuable? i.e. certainly there is value in limiting goals against if they are able to consistently get it into the D zone and establish the forecheck -- but is that enough value given how much ice time they get, especially if they aren't shutting down the opponents' top lines but rather their bottom lines (which as mentioned above I don't know is the case or not)? Discuss.

It was on the between-periods show (with Marek, Burke and Friedman -- pretty good crew there, btw) on the Canadian sportsnet feed.

I thought Risto committed a major gaffe on Montreal's 2nd goal -- although he was contested by a Hab, Risto didn't push hard enough to get the puck out along the wall and it ended up on Armia's stick for an easy PPG. (Good for Armia, btw, getting 2 goals and an assist in his return to Buffalo and coming very close to a natural hattie.)

As I've said previously, that goal was a nice goal and an excellent play by Reino, but it had zero to do with "good skating".

My game notes: - Eichel started the game like Godzilla, then scored 2 sweet goals in the 2nd and was a major threat the entire game. He did make poor plays on the SHG and the GTG though. - Reino had his 2nd lousy game in a row. He was the only one of the big 5 forwards who was ineffective. And his allegedly good skating betrayed him on the GTG. - As I was hoping would be the case, the top PP is freaking great. They look like an elite NHL unit. - Skinner is a great player. And MoJo is looking that way too. He has to be JB’s best FA signing, right? Am I missing anyone? - Mitts has been completely ineffective since game 1. A few more like this and I’ll be ready to send him down in favor of Asplund. - VO is a gift from heaven. - I can’t quite put my finger on the reasons/tactics that CBJ and MTL were able to apply much more offensive pressure than Pitt and NJ were. It could’ve just been more intensity and talent, but it seems like there is something going on with the opposing forecheck that the Sabres aren’t adjusting to. - it was an exciting win, but the Sabres easily could’ve lost that game. They didn’t play a defensively responsible game, and that includes experienced leaders like Eichel and Risto.

Well, I'm not advocating for any change other than Eichel bearing down and playing better. I have not seen early-last-season-emerging-monster Eichel yet. I've seen a very good player, playing hard and responsibly but not dominating. Do you think he's playing as well as we should expect/as we need him to play?

But they don't have any extra forwards now. I don't think they will want to head out on a road trip without at least one extra. It will probably be TT, but maybe Asplund.

Does TT get called up already?

I too have not loved Eichel's start to the season.

I think Dom was a better goalie than Gilbert was a center, in terms of being at or close to the all-time best at the position. However, I think a franchise, HOF-level center is harder to find, and thus more valuable, than a franchise, HOF-level goalie. In other words: if I were constructing a team, would I rather have, say, the 2nd-best goalie of all time or the 9th-best center of all time? I think in a draft I'd take the center because I'd still get a great freaking goalie on my next pick, while the dropoff from the center I would get in the first round to the one I would get in the next round would be greater and more debilitating to my team. So I'm taking Gilbert.

Well, Sheary is hurt, innit? I suspect at least 90% of Sabrespace agrees with you though.