nfreeman

Well, someone else asked the (presumably rhetorical) "hoodwinking" question recently, and my answer remains that I don't think there is any attempt to hoodwink anyone. I would expect any trading partner to have full access to Eichel's medical reports. More importantly, I would guess that (i) those medical reports say that there is no way to be sure of any outcome, but there is a significant likelihood that he never regains full and stable physical function, (ii) trading partners would have their own doctors review the medical reports and advise them and (iii) there will be teams who are smitten enough with the visions of 2-years-ago Eichel that they are more willing than the Sabres are to shop around for the medical advice they want to hear and generally to take the injury risk -- but that the risk will be priced into the offers they make for Eichel, which is why we will inevitably be disappointed in the return.

This wasn't my takeaway at all -- if TP's only "maneuver to be included in hockey operations" was a 30-minute conference call, that sounds like someone who is pretty disconnected -- i.e. the opposite of a meddler, @PASabreFan.

Of course Eichel says he thinks he'll be fine. I don't think that statement is meaningful in considering how likely it is that he will in fact be fine. Do you have a list of MVP-level 24-year-olds who had unprecedented spinal surgery? Or any spinal surgery? I don't have a list, but a bit of google reveals: - Nick Bjugstad had back surgery in March 2015 at age 23. He had just come off 43 pts in 72 games in his 2nd full NHL season. Since the surgery, he's played 54, 82, 64, 13 and 44 games, scoring 34, 49, 14, 26, 2 and 17 pts. - Dave Bolland had back surgery in November 2009 at age 23. He had just come off 52 pts in 81 games in his 2nd full NHL season. He played 7 seasons after the surgery, 39, 76, 61, 35, 23, 53 and 25 games, scoring 16, 37, 37, 14, 12, 23 and 5 pts. - Joffrey Lupul had back surgery in December 2009 at age 26. He had just come off 50 pts in 79 games in his 5th full NHL season. He played 6 seasons after the surgery, 54, 66, 16, 69, 55 and 46 games, scoring 31, 67, 18, 44, 21, and 14 pts. I will also note that a google search for "NHL back surgery" comes up with very few hits -- so I think there are very few precedents for this. As for the bolded -- we are quite far from knowing this for a fact. Unless I have missed something, the sole source for this assertion was Wawrow's appearance last week on Tim Graham's podcast, which I went back and listed to just now. Wawrow did NOT report or say that his sources have told him that Eichel was being shopped prior to the injury. He said "I believe..." and "there's a belief that..." and similar qualifiers, and the only fact, or anything close to a fact, that he mentioned was Bob McKenzie's reporting from months ago that the Sabres were NOT shopping Eichel, but were listening to offers -- which we broke down in detail on this board when it happened. So I think we are nowhere near a well-supported determination that KA wants to trade Eichel for any reason other than the injury. (BTW, I think TG is a reasonably solid reporter, but there is way too much unfunny yukkin' it up on his podcast for my taste.)

Not trying to be argumentative -- why do you think this? He was a shell of himself last season, a month ago he was openly pushing for an unprecedented type of spinal surgery because the rehab wasn't working and we've heard nothing to indicate that there has been any improvement -- and if the rehab had worked, it would've been in the Sabres' interest to make that known since that would've increased the price other teams are willing to pay in trade. As for certainty and wanting the other party to bear the risk -- sure, in a perfect world both of those would happen, but this is a much grayer situation than a black-and-white one IMHO. I.e. there is no way for KA, a doctor or anyone else to be certain. IMHO, if KA has consulted with the docs and has been advised that it's 80% likely that Eichel won't regain his top form, he has to act on that.

Serious question: do you not think the injury is real? Your posts read like you expect Eichel to resume his MVP-contender-level performance next season like nothing happened.

When a notification pops up that PASabreFan has replied to one of my posts, I hurriedly click, with bated breath, hoping for one of your solid gold witticisms. I suppose they can't all be gems.

Here’s an Adams quote from that article that might reflect his view of Eichel: “…an identity of team first, really believing in each other. Getting away from anyone in this organization or on this team that's more concerned about themselves.”

I think if we're saying 10 more wins, it refers to 10 more wins than last year, when Linus got hurt again and Hutton plus a bunch of stiffs played a lot of games -- so maybe it's not the standard wins above replacement, in which I assume the replacement is an average goalie, but rather wins above catastrophically bad goaltending.

Based on what you’ve heard, how likely is it that they resign Reino?

Let’s chill out a bit please. @Hoss — I think “homophobic” is a bit strong as an adjective for those tweets. You have used “gay” here a number of times in a similar joking manner.

What did he tweet that was homophobic? I googled this and didn’t find anything.

Well, this may be what you think is the case, but it’s far from having been established as fact. My entire point was that I think this is NOT the driving issue, and that the key factor is, rather, KA’s determination that Eichel is permanently damaged goods. I suppose we’ll find out in time.

I don’t think the Sabres would be hoodwinking anyone. Any trade partner would have access to Jack’s medical reports. My assumption is that (i) the medical reports will be inconclusive, ie not able to state with any certainty, or even much confidence, what the medical outcome will be and (ii) the trading partner will be more willing to take the risk than the Sabres are.

The stadium still held 80,000 during the Chuck Knox era. I went with my dad to a late season snowy game vs Pittsburgh that the Bills won convincingly. Fergy, Cribbs, Butler, Smerlas, Haslett. Freezing, amazing and unforgettable.

No. My take is that the injury itself — not the disagreement over the best course of treatment — is the primary reason that KA has decided to trade him — ie KA has determined, after consulting with experts, that Eichel will probably never regain his elite form. Accordingly, the theory goes, now is the best time to trade him, before the rest of the NHL realizes that Jack is permanently damaged goods. The alternative is that KA has decided that Jack’s attitude is bad enough that the team is better off without him. That is a conclusion that I would strongly disagree with KA about, unless Jack is one of those rare and truly toxic individuals.

A generation in the wilderness, plus Covid, has resulted in many fans not knowing the euphoria of experiencing in-person a huge home Bills win. If it's a big late-season game, and the Bills are winning in the 4th quarter, and the other team has the ball, and the Bills break through for a sack -- holy freaking mackerel. The stadium explodes. There is nothing like it.

I don't agree with this. I think there are plenty of hockey insiders, and fans, who understand the team's reluctance to go along with an unproven surgical technique on their franchise player's spine. I agree that it gets him some support, but I think that support would evaporate, and backfire on him, if it becomes clear that he was lying.

Such a great show. And Herb was a great character.

Full and speedy recovery please RR. We’re thinking of you.

Sometimes, yes, but mostly IMHO it’s a lot of people out to have a good time without crossing the line.

I think I’m in the “no captain until someone clearly earns it and just go with As in the meantime” camp. Now, if they miraculously bring in a guy like 5-years-ago Nick Foligno this summer? Sure. But I don’t think I want a guy who is as out of gas as Foligno looked to me on the Leafs during the playoffs. It’s very possible that Eichel is using the surgery dispute as a pretext, but that would be so dishonest, and transparently so (ie if he goes somewhere else and doesn’t get the surgery), that I’m skeptical this is the case. I also think it doesn’t get him anything that a simple trade demand doesn’t get him.

If that’s your point, then say it, instead of what you said, which was poor in both content and tone.

Both of these are obnoxious. No thanks on KO. The captain cannot be that bad of a player IMHO. Separately: I think the injury is being overlooked as a driving factor of the apparent decision to move on from Eichel. I will also say that if KA has decided to move Jack solely for cultural reasons, I disagree strongly with the decision, unless Jack is really one of those rare guys that no one can stand to be around.

Well, you may have seen info that I haven't, but all I've seen is that a few teams have been said to have kicked the tires -- no names of players attached, no reports of activity heating up, nothing about a team putting together an attractive package, etc.

It could also mean that no one is interested in the $50MM Eichel injury risk until he demonstrates on the ice that he's all the way back.