Taro T

They need to be targeting at least 0.600 to keep reaching the goal of playoffs this season in their own hands. 0.575 and they still very likely will need help in some other team having serious injury troubles or their goaltending falling off the map. It's possible 94 points will be enough. But pretty sure the odds are greater everybody here will be very unhappy rather than pleased 10 months from now if that's all they end up with.

Though 94 would've been enough each of the last couple of years, would be mildly surprised if that's enough again this year. Not convinced Tampa will fall back and expect NJ to be good again this year. If even just one of the Aisles, Wings, Otters, Caps, Pens, or Phlyers get their #### together, it'll take somewhere from 96-99 to get in.

Wow. Just, wow.

The Aisles & the Pens (whom you already seem to have discounted) would be the seemingly obvious teams to also take a step back. It's in reach. They need to be more driven though than they were last year. Doubt Ruff would sit idly by as the PP goes to heck in a handbasket for roughly 95% of the season, so they will be more driven to win. Hopefully those that are here when they leave for the trip to Europe are seriously serious about it this year.

Probably not the ideal place for this response, but something about the sentence about hoping to be a playoff team in a few years stuck out. Adams expected the team last year to be a playoff caliber team and essentially sat on his hands that off-season. He found out it wasn't and seems to have learned from that experience. Since it was apparent to him that the team wasn't good enough for the playoffs (which came to him later than it did for most), he's swapped out his 3C (arguably his 1st or 2nd C, but considering he seemingly wasn't willing to pay him, will run with 3C) for a player he believes can be on the top pairing in the near future, if not now (and from comments his new HC has made, likely not now); as mentioned he swapped out the head coach; he's brought in a credible veteran goalie to at minimum provide competition for the incumbants; and he's swapped out (if not upgraded) 5 of the spots on the bottom 2 lines. He's also rumored to be looking for another piece to plug into the top 6. With all that, personally see what the HOPE should be is playoffs THIS year. Maybe not the expectation; but this team as presently constructed should be at an absolute minimum in the mix for a playoff spot. Personally, expect this team, as currently constructed is about a 95-96 point team. Not a lock, and they're one of 6 or 7 teams battling for the 2 WC (can't see Moe-ray-all nor Columbus in the mix even with Columbus' FA acquisitions) but only Tampa and NJ seem to have a clear edge over the Sabres at this point in time and NJ might be the team taking the 3rd spot in the Patrick Division so the Sabres don't absolutely have to punch above their weight class to get it. But they have to be the best of that muddled middle. Would really like to see that 2W come in to help give them the edge in being the best of (or at least one of the best 3) of the "grade inflation isn't just for schools anymore" bunch. But they're in the mix. And expect (maybe it's projecting hope) that the poor start last year is something the players that are back still have front and center in their minds and will be something they will work to avoid. Many times during this dark era, this team has come out of the gate reasonably to very well, in large part because other squads overlooked them but the Sabres had something to be playing for. After last season, other teams will be overlooking them again in October but they themselves have something to prove. Hate that they're starting the year in Europe as it seems teams usually have a disconnect right when they come back home and this team can't afford it. At least Ruff will know the Devils' strengths and weaknesses well; winning those 1st 2 would be huge.

He's dirty. He's a leader. His best hockey is behind him. As with so much in this world, depends upon the price.

Still say 260-270 is very realistic. And that's with expecting no increase in production from Tuch, Peterka, nor Dahlin.

16g. 22a. And very good advanced stat metrics as he focuses more on his own end than the offensive zone.

The team as assembled is possibly a playoff team. They'll be in the mix and with a couple of realistic breaks breaking their way, they can be in. But Quinn, especially if he's on the 2nd line & the top PP unit, could very well find himself their 2nd leading goal scorer when all is said and done this year. Could realisitically see him coming out of the gate with 6 or 7 goals in the 1st 10 games as other teams are focusing on stopping the Thompson line. Because, at least at home, that line could very likely be primarily facing the other team's 3rd or 4th lines. Either bottom 6 line could match up against the opponent's top line (or 2nd line should Ruff want to go fire power vs fire power) leaving that line with horses that can exploit weaker opponents. Can't see him sustaining that pace; but could see him going on 2 hot runs like that this year should he stay healthy. 18 goals in the other 62 games and he hits that elusive 30 goal mark.

Amen to that, brother. Thing is, IF this does blow up in Adams' face again, a new GM wouldn't be starting out with a tank quality NHL roster and a LT contender's prospect pool like the past 2 (or arguably 3) GM's had to deal with. There's too much here for somebody COMPETENT to need an ADDITIONAL 3-4 years from here. But at this point, a full baker's dozen years into the abyss; not even wanting to suffer another 1-2 year reset. Make it f'n' happen NOW.

Realizing that Benson isn't going to be adding even 20 goals this year; yes, in a very 'cut your nose off, to spite your face' sort of way trading him away wouldn't be just treading water. But he'll only be 19 this year and he is a big part of this team's future and is expected to be a key contributor when we're getting to the seasons that Adams expects this team to be true contenders. Personally, would not trade Benson for Ehlers straight up, much less in a package. The others, maybe, but don't see any way Adams does so. And either of those other 2 you mentioned, wouldn't be considered a top 6W; they'd be considered a 1st line W. Though maybe he should be panicking over the possibility of losing his job; have seen no signs yet that he is.

And, rightly or wrongly, Adams has set up a large scale experiment to see whether it is in fact the 200 game threshold that NHL quality players need to reach to "get it" as you say; or whether they need to be at least 23 or 24 to be "getting it," or whether it's a combination of the 2. Because it is really rare for a team to be this dependent on young (early mid-20's and younger) players in key roles. Common sense says the team is still too young. But, as you mentioned, the team ISN'T too inexperienced (at least not in RS action; there are still an awful lot waiting to pop that cherry). Can the experience trump the youthfulness? Adams seems to be betting his job on the answer to that being 'yes.'

Can't see them moving any of the guys currently slotted into the top 6 to bring in a different top 6W. It's suffling the deckchairs. The only rostered players that it would make sense to trade in a deal for a top 6W are Krebs, Greenway, or reluctantly one of the D. Quinn & Benson are expected to be major contributors in the near future if not necessarily now. (And personally, expect Quinn to be a major contributor now.) It doesn't make sense to make a move that is essentially treading water.

Internal growth and better coaching are reasons to expect the team is significantly better than last year. Luukkonnen not being able to sustain top 5 in the league play and the possibilities of injuries being able to derail a potentially good season as there isn't much top end nor bottom end depth at F are the reasons to expect this team to be substantially what it was last year with only modest improvement. A big part of why bringing in another 2W should be so beneficial. It doesn't just allow both Benson and Greenway to be slotted into the bottom 6; it gives at least 1 (likely) legit top 6 F (besides Zucker who might be too long in the tooth) ready to bump up into the top 6 when an inevitable injury strikes there.

Don't believe that giving out 1 year deals in the Covid summer ('20) necessarily meant that Adams didn't want those guys signed long term. Nobody knew how much longer those "2 weeks to flatten the curve" were going to stretch out, nor how cash would start flowing again. This team's billionaire owners had their money tied up primarily in rather non-liquid assets: NG bearing land and professional sports teams, both of which were not generating cash like they had prior to that March as the economy was completely locked down. Nobody traveling -> low energy prices. Nobody allowed to attend sporting events (which were still shut down at that time as well) -> no in person sales from attending patrons (nor even TV networks wanting to pay their owed monies because there were no games for them to telecast (the leagues don't hold up their end of the bargain, the networks aren't going to want to hold up their end)). So, the owners had a very good reason to not want to commit to any LT contracts at the time. They might be committing to cash outlays that they would not necessarily be able to cover. While personally agree that Adams would've rather switched gears right when he came into the GM's office, he did not do so; he tried to continue with the plan that Botterill had been implementing. Had Covid not hit and the owners had their liquid cash flow severely disrupted, there is a very good chance that Reinhart and Ullmark would've been offered multiyear deals eating some of their UFA years rather than 1 year deals that walked them to within 1 year (or 0 years in Linus' case) of UFA status. And IF those 2 (and maybe some others like Montour) all have LT deals, then Eichel might not've offered to be trade bait should there be an extended rebuild. We'll never know the answer to how it would've played out, because life as we knew it changed remarkably that spring. IF Eichel would've still asked out, we still would've been heading down this path, but not sure of just how full the extent would've been (especially had Reinhart and some others been extended).

Yes, CHL players can take it as well. But presuming they're good enough to get drafted, they still have to wait 4 years after they were originally draft eligible for it to happen. Get drafted by team A. Don't sign for 2 years. Go back into the draft. Get drafted by team B (that could be team A again; there's no prohibition against redrafting the same player). Don't sign for 2 years. Become a UFA. Make the world your oyster. 😉

Yes, if a player goes to the NCAA, you have 4 years of retaining his rights prior to signing him. If he comes through the CHL, you have 2 years of retaining his rights prior to signing him. 2*2 = 4. The discussion was about how teams lose the rights to an NCAA player after 4 years if he hasn't signed an ELC by then. Well, a team loses the rights to a CHL player after only 2 years if he hasn't signed an ELC by then. No, that CHL player doesn't become an UFA after 2 years; he becomes an overager in the draft; but yes, the team loses that player after the 2 years and must redraft him if they want to have exclusive negotiating rights with him for the full 4 years. And that 4th year was available to the team to get the player signed. You could make the argument that a team doesn't get the full 2 years of a CHL player as he might have decided as soon as his 2nd season is done that he wants nothing to do with that NHL team even though the team has the rights for another month or so.

Actually, because a player played in the NCAA, a team gets his rights for twice as long as if he'd gone to Juniors. Kids that play in the CHL and aren't signed within 2 years go back into the draft. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen. That's in place, because kids in Juniors can have signed pro contracts. It's going to change soon, but NCAA players weren't allowed to play college hockey if they had been "professionals." So, teams can sign guys right after the draft or anytime within those 1st 2 years if he went Junior, but couldn't sign a college kid until he leaves. Without that rule in place, nobody would have ever signed drafted an 18 or 19 yo college kid unless he was really special like an Eichel because they'd all be back in the draft before they'd played their Junior Year of college hockey. Will be interesting to see how that changes with the next CBA.

True. And it is mildly surprising it doesn't happen more often. But playing devil's advocate, the flip side of a Johnson situation is, the GM club is pretty insular (only having 32 members) and each one knows how much time and effort another GM's staff put into these kids for literally years only to see the kid decide to walk away at the last moment. Pretty sure those guys talk to each other and sure an Adam Fox is going to have his talent outweigh a lot of "disloyalty" (for lack of a better word; really not the ideal word, but close enough for an internet post) that perhaps a lesser player won't get the same leeway with. And GMs are going to wonder, if the kid bailed on them, how long is it going to take til he goes and bails on us. Apples to kumquats, but Tim Kennedy's career hit the skids when he was in about the best situation he could possibly be but got convinced to file for arbitration anyhow. If you aren't legitimately special, beware of asking to be treated as if you are. Because instead of viewing you as being "special," the members of that insular club might view you as SPECIAL and stay away at all costs. Plus Johnson's dad works in the NHL. Pretty sure he was giving his kid some advice on the LT implications of pulling a Vesey. Adams said all along he wasn't worried that Johnson would walk away. He might've had some additional info that we weren't privy to and actually did know he'd sign.

It's not worth it for the vast majority of players which is why it's such a big deal each time the handful of guys going that route actually does so.

Have used Puckpedia for a long time. (They bought out the old NHLnumbers site.) Not as user friendly as CF was but they've modified their site around a lot the past few months to look more like CF. Expect they'll likely continue working towards the CF style as they seem to be poised to get most of their traffic now. If there's a particular page of a site you want but tend to have a heck of a time finding, why not bookmark that particular page? It'll at least get you to a starting point even if the data you want is for Nov 17, 2025 and the bookmark shows you it for Oct 6, 2023.

Really? Ya don' say.

Isn't that what was said about the Pegulaplan about 10 years ago? Eventually they should be back in there. But who knows how "eventually" is defined?

Counselor, you appear to be arguing for the point of arguing. Paraphrasing you 'they are going to roll 4 lines, the proof being they paid ~$4MM for the 4th line' but also 'no way will the bottom lines get used a lot.' Which from this perspective looks an AWFUL LOT like 'there will be a bit of a rolling 4 lines mojo.'

That line will be playing legit minutes. But would be surprised if they're averaging nearly 15 minutes per man especially if the "3rd line" is also playing close to that. (Thus using the phrase you took exception to.)