Taro T

One additional point, if the play was SO close to being legitimately onsides that ALL of that went wrong in the evaluation of it; then the offensive team did NOT gain the type of advantage from having had the puckcarrier over the line early that the offside rule was put in place to eliminate. Again, personally am ok with carrying the puck into the zone after you have already entered the zone presuming the puck carrier is in control of the puck.

Again, you are looking to take away a rarely seen play because of the POSSIBILITY of questions POTENTIALLY arising from a significantly even rarer play. That doesn't make sense IMHO. Clearly YMVs. As to your 1st group of Qs. No, the play is not onsides because the puck was NOT carried into the zone by a player in possession of it before at least 1 offensive player was inside the zone. It's pretty clear / cut and dried. And then to your 2nd group of Qs. No, it is not ruled a good goal should the linesman have missed the offside and there is a challenge of the goal. In order to get to the point of the Sabres (per your example) getting screwed by that goal being deemed to have been legit, you need the linesman to miss the offside and you need those reviewing the play to miss the offside as well. Considering how rare that play is when it's cleanly played in a game, am ok with the risk that not only the puckcarrier will lose the puck before it fully crosses the blue line, the linesman is so mesmerized by the move that he doesn't realize the puckcarrier lost the puck, a goal is scored before the defending team has gotten the puck out of the zone or there was a stoppage in play, the coach and his team don't recognize that the puck was lost before it crossed into their zone OR they do recognize it but somehow none of the 4 officials nor anyone in TO reviewing the play manage to notice that it was offside. That is a LOT of things to go wrong in the evaluation of a single very unique play, any single ONE of which going RIGHT will result in no goal being scored. Am ok with those odds. My 2 cents.

How many empty netters did they give up to this point last year? They've given up 9 so far this year. Almost an extra 0.4 GA/game to this point. How many OTL's last year? 4 this year. Not nearly bumping up the GAA like the ENs are, but still, they didn't lose many in OT the past few seasons.

He IS figuring it out. But whether he fully gets it remains to be seen. And whether he does or doesn't will make his contract either be a slight overpay or a huge bargain. And don't expect he'll ever ragdoll people. That was beaten out of him at a very young age.

Not completely, you can't. But, they could get him to be effective in his own end. He will, at times, use his body to keep players from getting past him along the boards. This is something he pretty much didn't do at all in prior years. He isn't looking as lost in front of the net as he has in the past. How much better he can get at these is the critical question? When he came into the league, he would only shoot if he got the puck in the slot; now he will actually shoot from the point when there is a screen. He still looks to pass 1st, but he doesn't automatically pass. Expect that is a function of him finally feeling "storng." Expect the improvements in the D-zone are also because he's more comfortable that he won't bounce off the opponent should he decide to engage. At his age, he'll still get stronger. In theory, he'll be more comfortable using his body for positioning. He's never going to be a hitter. But, if he gets in people's way AND he continues to get better with his stick, he can be effective without adding that other tool, which isn't in his nature, into his tool box.

Are players that weren't invited to their camp even eligible?

Heck, icing is a judgement call. They intentionally haven't gone to full no-touch icing which would remove that need for linesmen to exercise their judgement. What you seem to be arguing is that a rare play that could lead to additional offense should not be allowed because a significantly rarer play might require a linesman, who presumably was hired for good judgement, good powers of observation, and an ability to get to where he needs to be when he needs to be there in one of the fastest sports known to man, to demonstrate that good judgement. Is that your point? A lot of items to dislike about the current rules of the game. IMHO, this is not one of them.

Whatevs.

On THANKSGIVING?!?!? Since when is this thread open on Thanksgiving?

Really wanted Lyon to get the start last night, but knew it would be UPL between the pipes. And UPL's defenders can point to things that his teammates did to put him in the point that he had to make saves, but that's kind of the entire point of the position. If nobody makes a mistake, you are going to face only about 5 high danger chances per game. But people make mistakes, it's a very quick paced sport and your opponent is taking away time and space, and the good goalies bail their teammates out more often than not. And if the game situation is removed, UPL didn't give up any "bad" goals. Each of the shots that beat him had a factor that made it more challanging than a normal save; but NONE of them were of the "well, Hasek could've stopped it, maybe, but mere mortals didn't have a chance" variety. Yes, the 1st goal was tipped, but the shot was from nearly 10' above the circle and Bryam's stick was at or outside the circle too. If UPL's entire body isn't moving towards the far post, he very likely makes that save even though it was deflected. Yes, his teammates didn't help him on the 2nd goal, but he's the one that overreacted to the initial shot that went wide, which led to him having to overreact when the puck bounced off the boards into his skates which led to him dropping his stick. Once he dropped his stick, he was toast, but he didn't need to be. Stay square and plan on closing the 5 hole with his legs rather than his blocker and that play continues. But he continued the overreaction and tried to make the save with his blocker which delayed the closing of the 5 hole. Yes, his teammates made a poor line change on the 3rd goal and Power didn't step up into the deflector in time to keep him from directing the puck at the net, but UPL only had to move 1/2 way across the crease to get in front of that shot. It wasn't labelled to the far post. If he isn't fully commited to the shot on a 3 on 1, he makes that save. It wasn't a mini 2 on 1 that he should expect his D-man to be able to prevent the shot from the pass, but it was a mini 3 on 1; he has to be cognizant that there's a good chance he's facing a shot from his left side and can't 100% commit to the puck carrier being the shooter. But, when the game situation is included in the evaluation, all 3 were goals that the team really needed him to figure out how to make that stop. The good news is that UPL didn't give up any WTF Specials. The bad news is, all 3 of those goals came while the outcome of the game was still in doubt. The 1st came on only the 3 shot his teammates let get through to him in a scoreless game late in the 1st; the 2nd came literally 30 seconds after his teammates had tied the score; and the 3rd came as time was dwindling when already trailing by 1. That 3rd goal made it an almost certainty that they'd have to pull the goalie at the end and they had given up 8 EN goals this year and have scored 0 6v5 goals this year. That stat is now 9 against 0 for. He isn't looking confident from the get go in any of these games. He's overreacting and fighting to make the 1st stop. He's seemed to be settling in in the 2nd period but he's still isn't looking confident when the game is getting tight. No idea how they give him confidence in himself. That has to come from within. And the shame of that is they set him up to be in a spot to believe in himself and get the team to believe in him too which is that feedback loop that gets him rolling (at least until he runs out of gas 1-2 months later).

3rd game in a row that they didn't give up the 3rd shot against of the game until there were 5 or less minutes left in the 1st. Astoundingly bad decision by Timmons to try a drop pass to no one in a game that was that tight checking to that point. Byram made the right play, but he and UPL had bad luck in that the puck changed direction slightly and got through. Considering that was the only scoring chance the Sabres gave up that period, would like to have seen UPL figure out a way to make the stop there. Not sure what Östlund was doing that period. He tried to force a puck back to the point that had no chance of getting through, made a youth hockey deke right before hitting the blue line taking both his linemates offside and had one other really boneheaded thing in the 1st. All of which were the sort of things he was doing his 1st 2 games up; but he'd played really well since then. Wonder if seeing Norris in practice and being able to do math had him clutching the stick a little too tight to start the game. Quinn decided to try to force a puck back to the point that also had no chance of getting through that the Pens ended up icing for some reason. Was expecting we'd be seeing WTF Quinn this game because of that, but that really was just about the only head scratcher he had tonight and he generated some very good chances and more or less scored both goals. He's been looking like we'd hoped he would since Zucker has come back in the lineup. Regardless how Lindy adjusts the lines when Norris gets back, would absolutely not break those 2 up. Zucker really seems to help his stay focused and confident. There was one other bad drop pass that period, but it ended up pretty harmless too. Didn't realize Kea was 36. Always hate seeing 36 or 39 reffing Sabres games because it always seems they have it in for the Sabres. At least now know why 36 hates 'em. Wonder what 39's story is? Realize it was Crosby and he'll always get the benefit of the doubt at this stage of his career, but both the call against Timmons and the noncall when Crosby "accidentally" stepped into Dahlin should've gone the other way. They let the Pens get away with interference all game, but they pretty much let the Sabres do so as well; so those 2 Crosby calls were pretty much the extent of lousy reffing. Maybe 36 was in a good mood because it's Thanksgiving tomorrow. (Considering he's a Canuck, that's not intuitively obvious, but maybe he married a Yank and she's psyched for tomorrow.) The Sabres aren't going to get a more evenly called game than this one with 36 in control. No idea what was said on the bench or what individual effort caused the team to collectively get their legs moving when they had the puck, but a light switch definitely got flipped 35 or so minutes into the game. Game got much more entertaining after that. Though thought UPL was shaky in the 1st, he got a couple of shots right into the crest to start the 2nd and he was picking his game up a lot and looked solid in the 3rd while the Sabres trailed. Was wondering how he and the team would react to the Pens giving up on their shell hoping to get Jarry the SO, but they all spit the bit when the Pens pushed back. Yes Timmons and his teammates should've been better there; but THAT was when they needed UPL to remain calm and bail them out. And he panicked as much as they did. He over reacted to the 1st shot and then was in a bad spot when the puck was back under him bouncing off the boards; lost the stick and then tried to make a blocker save 5 hole rather than just closing the 5 hole with his legs. He said he lost the puck briefly behind Byram. It was a tough spot to be in, but they NEEDED him to find a way to make that save. And then on the 3rd goal, yes, with the slow line change by the Fs Power was a bit slow on getting to the guy who scored, and the goal wasn't on UPL, but goalies who's teams win on the road tend to find a way to make at least 1 of those 3 tough saves. Jarry faced way more tough shots and ended up stopping all but 2. They needed UPL to find a way to make at least 1 more of them. Overall, he played well. Still thought he was shaky in the 1st, but the team kept the Pens from getting many shots through; just like they'd done in the 1st against both Chicago and the Canes, and gave him time to get into a bit of a groove while having only given up 1 to that point. He didn't give up any bad goals, or just the 1 bad goal, depending upon how you viewed how he got to the point he lost his stick and lost the puck; but he also didn't make any "big" save that bails his teammates out. It's good that he didn't give up the bad goals; but if he's going to be the guy they run with out of the 3 they have, he HAS to find a way to bail them out a couple of times when they need it. Jarry found a way to do so. And, at the end of the day, that's the difference from stealing 2 in a place that's been a house of horrors or just going home having to take solace in having played a tormentor pretty much evenly. Thompson and Tuch need to be better too. Neither played badly, but they both were just off enough in the offensive zone to not find a way to at least keep Tage's point scoring streak going, if not his goal scoring streak. Ruff said a few days ago that Samuelsson is their best D-man right now, and a modest case could be made that Dahlin has some competition for that title that he's clearly held all alone for at least the last 5 seasons and arguably the last 7 seasons. Really liking watching his play this year. Good to see him earning his pay. Can we petition the league to ensure that the Sabres don't play in a game where Zamboni gravy boats are being given away that night? 2 years in a row they played well, but ran into a hot goalie and effectively lost a 1 goal game they likely deserved better than. Head back home and make the Devils wish that they were hitting up some Boxing Day deals rather than the ice. Expecting Lyon gets that start, but wtf knows.

Because as long as you have control of the puck, you are allowed to bring the puck into the zone behind you. But all of your teammates must still wait for the puck to fully cross the blue line before they enter the zone. The point of offside is to keep players from hanging at the net before the puck is in the zone. Even a guy as big as Tage Thompson can't be hanging out at the net as the puck is coming into the zone when he has possession of the puck. The NHL's version of the game is low scoring enough. No reason to artificially lower scoring chances even more than they already are when the play doesn't give the attacking team an unfair advantage. MHO. YMMV.

At least not until Florida gets healthy.

Where's the challenge in that?

As expected. The plan this year seems to be: Sabres win, you get the next one (unless it's a back to back); Sabres lose, next man up. Hoping he plays well and gets his head back on straight. He could be good for a month or 2 if he does. Not expecting he'd stay on pace much beyond that because even though they have 2 other guys that have shown they're NHLers that should be able to spell him should he get good; that they'd still ride him until he drops. And, it seems quite difficult for him to get his head back on straight once he does drop.